Inferno and Seven
Choose any one of the following prompts, or feel free to create your own prompt.:
1. If you watched the movie, how do you suppose Seven is related to The Inferno by Dante. Include any parallels in relation to sin, theme, character biblical allusions and/or any reactions you have to the film and poem. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts, so if you venture off topic, feel free to do so.
2. Write your reactions to the film
3. Define "sin" what do you suppose the word means?
4. Hell and Sin. Is there a hierarchy of sin? What is the very worst sin an individual can commit?
5. Is there such thing as a place called Hell? If so, what does it look like? If not, why not? Why do some people believe in Hell and others do not?
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ReplyDelete2. My initial reactions to the film were the deep subject as well as the top tier performance from Brad Pitt, Morgan Freeman, and Kevin Spacey. I think that it is rather creative for the writer to twist the plot as opposed to making it predictable. For example, I thought that John Doe was going to murder both Mills and Somerset as there were 2 bodies remaining to be "found". In the end, Mills' wife was one of them, and Doe himself in his mind games with the former. I think the 7 elements in the movie have something to do with Dante's Inferno; probably talking about the same things for Hell and Sin. Before reading Inferno, I expect it to be just as dark, with many different things I have seen in Se7en.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you cory in the fact that Inferno and seven will be a lot alike, However I feel like Inferno will go into far more details and be a lot more hell and devilish than Seven. I also was surprised with the ending, but in all honestly I was expecting a lot more from it and was kind of let down.
DeleteWow. Se7en was an extremely good movie. I expected the movie to be some sort of "horror" movie such as Paranormal Activity and those types of movies but I was wrong. Yes the movie was "scary," but it was a different kind of scary. It was psychological and a thriller. There was no jump scares nor was the villain some scary character, but rather a simple photographer that happened to be a master serial killer. I thought it was very interesting how at the end when Somerset opens the box, the audience doesn't get to actually see what's inside until Somerset reveals it to Mills which builds anticipation. The ending plot in my opinion was really well put together, how John Doe was "Envy" and Mills became Wrath. I enjoy these kinds of detective thriller movies the most because they keep me hooked into the plot and makes me wonder what will happen next. The ending makes the audience question what will Somerset do now that he's retired and what will happen to Mills.
ReplyDeleteDavid Kim's Final Movie Rating: 9/10
Wow, David! You should totally work for Rotten Tomatoes, because that was a pretty detailed review! Even though I opted out of watching the movie, I might change my mind later about watching the movie at home. Your thoughts will definitely influence my decision in the future! :)
DeleteI agree that the ending was well done, but I don't see how it justifies John Doe's rationale for his work. John Doe wanted to create an informative spectacle that would be discussed long after his death. But John Doe's final act was not aimed at the world, it was deeply personal. I did not understand whether John Doe was preaching solely to David Mills, or to the entire world.
DeleteI do agree the movie was extremely good it showed the mystical and important side to the deadly sins while also showing the real life situations of something that could be represented by the sins of man. And the cast role of Brad Pitt, Morgan Freeman, and Kevin Spacey was spot on to play the roles of the characters in the film.
DeleteI agree that the movie was a psychological thriller, with a smart antagonist and an iconic ending. This movie has many, many references to the Seven Deadly Sins found within Dante's Inferno. For example, the sins themselves, as well as the subtle ones like how Brad Pitt shoots Kevin Spacey 6 times to complete the 7th sin, Wrath. I, too, would rate the movie 9/10.
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DeleteI agree with pretty much everything you brought up. I, too, expected the movie to be filled with jump scares since Ms. Ene said it is a very scary movie. Instead of using jump scares to thrill the audience, the plot itself was well thought out, and in a sense, scary, to keep the audience hooked. Albeit the excessive use of profane language, I thought that the movie was well thought out, and would also rate it a solid 9/10.
DeleteAnswering prompt 4, I believe that there is a hierarchy of sin because there are some sins that can be considered much less evil. For example, if you were comparing having sloth to stealing, you can say that one sin is worse than the other. It really depends on how much it affects another person, but it's still hard to judge whether one sin is more evil than the other. In my opinion, the very worst sin an individual can commit is probably murder, whether it be of a single person or a whole demographic. The act of murder is pretty evil as you are taking someone else's life and even more evil based on the circumstances or the intentions.
ReplyDeleteI also think murder is the worst possible sin for someone. In general, sins become more or less evil depending on the circumstances of the culprit.
DeleteWe share similar views on how there are different degrees of sin. I also agree with you that murder is definitely the worst sin of all. No one should be allowed to be in control of the life and death of others.
DeleteI agree that murder is the worst sin that someone can commit. The action of intentionally and directly ending someone's life is unparalleled by any bad action anyone can commit, and thus, it is the worst sin that can ever be committed.
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DeleteGood insight and I agree that there are "worse sins." However, I would like to make a comment that according to the Bible (where sin is talked about a lot), it states that all sin is considered equal, not matter the severity. In James 2:10, it states, "For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it." This suggests that no one sin is greater than the other and even though one may live by the law and not commit sins that we believe are the "worst," in Christianity God sees all sins on the same level. This is interesting because although most people have a sense of a hierarchy of sin and appropriate consequences according to the severity, the Bible states that "For the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6.23). In the eyes of God, no matter how severe the sin, the consequence of sin is death and condemnation. Because that is a cruel punishment and nobody can live without sinning, Jesus pays for all of humanity's sins. In the movie, John Doe says he is doing a favor and killing the sinners, hinting that he's doing God's work. However, according to the Bible he is in fact angering God because he is playing the role of God by enforcing punishment (death) on sinners when he too is a sinner and it is written in the Bible that only Jesus is allowed to judge sinners and punish them for their sins.
DeleteMy reaction to the film was somewhat suspected because of the way the antagonist John Doe was so calm and explained his reasoning for the killings. Also the way he hated Mills in a kind of sarcastic way, saying that he admired him even though he actually hated him in a sense. I knew all along that something was eventually going to happen to Mills because it was a sense of rivalry between John Doe and David Mills, they both wanted to get on eachothers final nerves until one of them cracked. This movie was very interesting to me because it showed the seven deadly sins in a factual and relevant way. Through murders and killings it kind of gave me and idea of what the book will hold in store. Although the way that John Doe showed the last two sins actually was very disturbing and maniacal, it took a lot of thought to come up with something like that.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the characters John Doe and David Mills had a rivalry kind of tension between them. I think John hated David because John thinks David sinned in a way and he took it upon himself to "punish" people, I'm not sure.
Deletethe word sin means wrong doings. Anything one commits thats isn't consciously right.
ReplyDeleteAs Atticus from to kill a mocking bird once said, stealing is the worst sin one can commit. When you kill someone, you steal their life from them and their family. When you steal an object, you steal the owner's rights for that object.
I believe that there is no such place called hell, because dying is not the worst punishment one can receive. I do believe in Karma. If the person did something horribly wrong and does not confess or try to fix it, then Karma will get to them eventually. The worst punishment is given by Karma, because you will be physically and mentally experience it while you are still conscious. Some people believe in Hell because they believe that there is an afterlife after you die. I personally do not believe in afterlife or anything that is related to heaven an hell.
I agree with you on the fact that Karma does exist and that when one does something wrong to another person then Karma will get them. I think that Karma eventually gets a person when they least expect it. I believe that the Universe has something to do with Karma as your intentions dictate what will happen to you in the future. If you have a good intent in life, you will not be punished. But, if you have a bad intent and if you seek bad for others then you will be severely punished.
DeleteSome people believe that there is a specific place for people's souls after death, for good and bad. Which Hell is meant for those who've "sinned" or bad people, I'm not sure if there's a difference, but there's two different places according to the people who do believe in that stuff. Personally, I don't believe in that and I'm not sure what happens after death because I never died before... ._.
ReplyDelete4. There's definitely a hierarchy of sin. For example, among the seven sins sloth and gluttony are on the bottom. In more realistic situations, I think that vandalism and petty theft are crimes(sins) that deserve the lightest sentences. The worst sin that an individual can commit is murder. Thieves can return what they steal and vandalists can clean up their graffiti, but there's no chance for redemption if someone is dead.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Daniel that murder is the worst sin one can commit. However, I think all sins deserves punishment regardless if they are heavy/light. As long as the person who receives the punishment learns their lesson.
DeleteIf the idea is that someone could repair the damage done from an act represents it to be a light sin, doesn't that give people the license to harm others? There are much worse things you could do to someone without killing them, such as incredible amounts of harm. Why is murder the worst sin that could be possible? In addition, what is in-between vandalism and murder? How are the sins inside of that broad range ranked? Is every single sin that isn't a petty crime or murder considered equal?
DeleteI like your reasoning for this, that some crimes are lower in the hierarchy because they are reversible. It's a good factor to point out, and it makes sense.
Delete2) The film was actually pretty interesting and suspenseful. I think watching the film before reading Inferno was a great idea; it gave a bit of background info regarding the 7 deadly sins and prepared me for the book in general. I actually didn't know what the 7 deadly sins were until the movie because I'm not religious. The movie wasn't that scary, it just had lots of messed up things in it that were just hard to comprehend. I also think the acting was good in the film, Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman really put it on another level.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you that watching the film before reading the story was a good idea. This is because many people may not have a lot of background knowledge of Inferno and even after reading the story, it can still be hard for some to fully interpret the full meaning. By watching the film, one can create some background on what the book is about which can help readers understand Inferno.
DeleteThe movie is probably related to Dante's Inferno because it depicts the seven deadly sins. People who performed these sins in life and were repentant would then undergo purgatory in the afterlife in order to gain access to heaven. The serial killer trying to reveal how deeply ingrained the seven deadly sins are in society, and by having observers of the case see each sin, they are brought through purgatory into the heaven. By dramatically displaying each sin to the public, the serial killer hopes to lead them to heaven. The character played by Morgan Freeman, William Somerset, shares the same name as the author of Of Human Bondage, a work that was referenced in the movies. In the context of the Inferno, the serial killer represents Virgil and David Mills represents Dante. David's last name, Mills, could be a reference to the way that people pass through purgatory to refine themselves just as grain is processed in a mill.
ReplyDelete3. In my opinion, sin is based off of conventional moral relativism. The definition of good or bad varies from person to person, because good people can do bad things for the overall greater good, rather than individual good. What is good or bad varies greatly,depending on both the era and geography. As a result, there is no such thing as a universal sin. A sin is, in general, any deliberate act that does more overall harm than help. Any act that contributes to the overall health of the population can be considered good, while any act that detracts from such can be considered a sin. However, if an individual acts to harm the community but, contrary to expectations, the result ends up contributing, this is still considered a sin. A sin is loosely defined as either the intent to harm or the result of harm.
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DeleteI agree with the idea that sin does not have a universal definition. Many people have different opinions and what is considered a sin and what isn't. I also agree with your definition of sin. In my opinion, a sin is an act intended to harm others. I do agree that sin is mainly revolved around harm and hurting others. But, I also believe that sin is tied to motives and why people are committing the act in the first place. If the act is driven by evil motives, then it should be considered as a sin. But, sometimes, harming others is driven by positive motives. During this kind of situation, we have to reconsider and look at the whole situation to determine whether the act is a sin or not.
Delete2. I really liked the movie and found myself really getting into the lives of the two detectives. This made the ending that much more great, because the audience hopes for a plot twist knowing very well that there wont be one. i liked the ending because it was almost like John Doe was punishing detective mills for a crime he was going to commit in the future. However, i can't say that i was surprised that the detective actually shot John Doe because he was faced with the choice of a vengeance that is literally nothing but wrath, or a moral high ground that still feels like failure. This ending really made me think and see how there is no real solution or right thing to do. And i think the movie wants to suggest that under certain circumstances, your ability to make correct moral judgments are lost and hostility and anger take over your actions. In the end, I'm glad they chose the ending that they did.
ReplyDeleteI agree - Detective Mills shooting John Doe wasn't all that surprising and sometimes a moral compass can be lost in a time of strong emotions, and can cause people to act wrongly.
DeleteHowever I partially disagree with the fact that there was no real solution or right thing to do. Detective Mills could have tried to resist the urge to shoot John Doe. While Mills would no longer have his wife, he would have his revenge by giving John Doe a lifetime in jail. But I understand that this could have been tough as his moral compass was probably shifted by what was happening around him.
I thought the movie had a very interesting plot, even though I only watched bits and pieces while I did some other work in class. I thought the ending was the perfect plot twist - Detective Mills himself was the final sin, vengeance.
ReplyDeleteThe way John Doe acted with Detective Mills was very odd from the start, like he was trying to get him worked up (which was successful), thus leading to him killing John Doe. It was extremely clever; having Detective Mills complete the puzzle by avenging his wife and child, thus being the sin of vengeance. When John Doe was explaining how all the people he murdered weren't innocent people, he showed a different point of view, showing how the world is so messed up that we would view these people as innocent.
Overall the movie was well-made and had a great plot that kept the audience engaged.
I agree, I thought that the ending of the film is what made it great. The plot throughout the film was unpredictable and mostly engaging, but not necessarily clever, barring the originality of the premise, however during the ending scene when we see it all come together does it result in a satisfying conclusion.
DeleteI agree, I thought the the ending was really well put together. Throughout the movie it kept the viewers engaged and the plot had a sense of reality to it.
Delete4. There is a hierarchy of sin. There are sins that are not as bad as others, and warrant more forgiveness or punishment. For example, two examples of sins are incest and murder. While both are bad, murder is easily a lot worse than incest. To quote a friend of mine, "incest is not that bad," and when compared to murder, it is definitely less of a sin. Murder is the very worst sin that an individual can commit because you are directly ending another person's life. Nothing else can measure up to the severity of murder, and thus it is the worst sin that someone can commit.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your idea that there are different levels of sins. There are many sins a person can commit in a lifetime. The severity of that sin all depends on society's judgement and moral standards. I can definitely say that murder is the worst sin that an person can commit.
DeleteI agree with your concept that there are different levels of sin. It is also dependent on the intention behind whatever was committed. Murder comes with the purpose of taking away someone's life and hurting many others in the process. Others, such as incest, are differently regarded.
DeleteSeven is related to The Inferno by Dante because they both describe journeys through various parts of hell; the difference is that John Doe creates a "hell on Earth" of his own. People who commit the seven deadly sins of Christianity are subject to negative consequences and their sins turning on them. In Dante's Inferno, people go to hell and, for example, are blown around in hurricanes recklessly like how their reckless, untempered lust drives them in the "wrong" direction. In Seven, John forces an obese man to overeat until he dies, emphasizing how the man's gluttony is not healthy.
ReplyDeleteMy reactions to the film:
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, the ending had such a good twist, but it made me so distressed, especially when Mills was experiencing inner conflict on whether or not to shoot him. I feel that overall the story was interesting and well-written, though especially the ending. Personally, I'm particularly fond of characters that do messed up things but have "good" -- """""good"""" motives; John Doe WAS right about how messed up the city was, and in a way he wanted to fix it by pointing that out to them, but he decided to do it in a horrible, gruesome way. I find these kinds of characters very complex and interesting, and they make really interesting villains.
The theme of the 7 sins was kinda cool, too. Oh, but the film wasn't nearly as scary as I expected it to be. But oww, the guy who was restrained for one whole year... The moment where he suddenly moved startled me though. Tension between Mills, his wife, and Somerset was awkward. For some reason I was convinced that the..what was it...train making Mills's house vibrate was going to be plot relevant later on, but it wasn't. Maybe just there for comedy? Mills is convinced he's more capable than Somerset thinks he is, but he gets hit in the head by John Doe and shoots him in the end...well, the latter was more about his anger than his skill as a detective, but those two things are somewhat linked anyway... Interesting how Somerset was portrayed as the old wise man who's been in this for years, while Mills was sort of like...well...the opposite, though he wasn't totally new. Can't think of a better way to describe it, so. Somerset is mostly a pretty calm man, meanwhile Mills is somewhat more short-tempered in comparison. The ending though, John didn't get to write "envy" and "wrath" anywhere haha. Going after Mills's wife was so messed up.
wow interesting, I would have watched the ending if I didn't miss a whole chunk on Friday... ahhaha True though, it wasn't as scary as I though either. I also like the idea of using the seven deadly sins. Although I don't believe in a hierarchy of sin- I think all sin is equal sin.
Delete4. I believe there is a hierarchy of sin, because there are crimes that are worst than others. For example, hurting someone physically may be a worst sin compared to stealing someone's property. However, I still feel that it is hard to judge the seriousness of a sin without being in the same position as the person who committed. I think the very worst sin an individual can commit is to take someone else's life. Murder is a serious crime that is addressed in our society with the worst punishments. It is handled with extreme measures in comparison to other crimes. In many cases, it results in life in prison or death penalty.
ReplyDeleteI see your point that there are hierarchy to the sins in this world, but at the same time I feel that all sins are as heavy as another. Not all murders are made by ignorant reasons, as some can be revenge for another. If sins weigh differently, murder with ignorant reason and murder to fulfil the revenge may weight differently.
Delete3, I think sin is the act of doing something immoral and against the law, for instance in seven the crazy guy killed those 5 people that would be a sin and Detective David killed the crazy guy that would also be a sin. But also stealing food for your family is a sin so there's different types of sins so to also answer question 4 I would say that there is a hierarchy of sins, and depending on your morals define what a sin is.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, sin is doing something that is immoral. Doing something that you are morally opposed to or know is wrong is sinning. I think some people sin and feel bad and others do not care, the worst sin is doing something that is bad for your own moral compass and will hurt others, such as murder.
Delete5. Yeah I think there is such thing as a place called Hell. In the Bible it is hot and burning place without the presence of God. Hell is that place where people who go there suffer for eternity until they get thrown into the lake of fire. It is the place opposite of Heaven- like satan's banishment. Some people don't believe in Hell perhaps because they don't see a reason to-their life on earth is more important at the moment. Maybe people think that Hell is just a made up place to keep people in their place on Earth.
ReplyDelete3. A sin by dictionary definition is an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. To me, this word means that someone has done something against their own moral compass. In other words, an action that is performed that harms others is a sin. The severity of the sin depends on whether or not the sin is emotional or physical. But ultimately, there is no justification or a good reason to commit a sin. Thus, we must always think before we speak, and consider the outcome of our actions.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Ethan in the fact that we must speak before we act, and consider the outcomes. In movie David doesn't think about the consequences of killing John, he just thinks about getting revenge for his dead wife. Sin is according to your morals, but is also judged by everyone else. You must think before you act, and think if you actions are against your morals or other poeples.
DeleteI agree that sin is based on a person's own moral compass. An example I read about was how a man could steal medicine for his sick wife, which would be in line with his moral compass, but would be against the law. I like how you believe thinking before we speak is a good idea.
DeleteMy reaction to the movie Seven was generally positive because of the interesting plot that it had. The goal of the killer in the movie was to kill off people who seemed to embody the seven deadly sins. In the end, John who was the killer, ended being the deadly sin of envy since he was envious of David Mill's normal life. I felt that the ending scene was really well put together because throughout the movie I had a feeling that the John Doe and detective Mills would end being one of the seven deadly sins and the movie would end up with one of them killing the other. Overall, I didn't think the movie was scary, but it was disturbing at some points because of there is a sense of reality in the plot. I would recommend people to see it because it gives a good idea on how people could be punished for their sins.
ReplyDeleteMy thoughts of the film stayed the same until the very end. John's actions all seemed to work towards one final ending in which he provoked David past his breaking point. In the film, sin could be defined as a crime against oneself such as gluttony. In hell, all sins can be seen as equal but in life wrath may be the worse sin of all. Wrath causes harm to others with little benefit to the sinner besides emotional relief. Although all sins are harmful, some sins affect only a single person while other affect those around them too. In the film however, John brought his interpretation of hell into the real world by punishing those by doing "god's work"
ReplyDeleteThe dictionary definition of hell is a place regarded in various religions as a spiritual realm of evil and suffering, often traditionally depicted as a place of perpetual fire beneath the earth where the wicked are punished after death. The idea of hell is more prominent in certain religions, and less to none in other beliefs. Christianity pictures hell to be a mix of the Greek’s concept of Hades, a place where there are eternal suffering and the Jewish concept of Gehenna, a place where there is eternal burning. On the other hand, Buddhism perceives the eternal pain and suffering lie in the fact that one cannot escape the eternal circle of life and death. Despite these difference, a common recurring image of hell between a majority of these religions is one of fire, the devil, and suffering.
ReplyDeleteHell is used as an incentive or preventative to avert people from sinning, or "doing wrong."
Some people don't believe in Hell for the same reasons they don't believe in religion or Heaven. Because they've never perceived or experienced in any way a phenomena that can definitively be described as those things instead of something else that's a more reasonable, measurable explanation. (5)
According to the dictionary, the definition of sin is an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. I believe that a sin is when you do something immoral knowingly. I think that there is a hierarchy to sins. For example, killing someone would be considered a very big sin as compared to stealing a candy bar from a store. I think killing innocent humans is the worst sin one can commit. I think hell does exists for those who have done bad to humanity. To me, hell looks like a bunch of people in a dark place suffering for the crimes that they have committed. I think some people believe in hell because religion compels people to believe in heaven and those people who don't believe in religion may believe that there isn't a hell.
ReplyDeleteSimran, I entirely agree with you about sin. Sin is an act committed knowingly, which is the basis of the film itself. There are also some sins which are not as bad as others, as you explained. However, I personally don't believe in hell. But I do agree that some people believe in hell because of religious reasons and the existence of heaven.
DeleteVery interesting point of view. I completely agree with you that sin is when someone does something immoral knowingly. If someone does something that they know will harm the other person, then it is a form of betrayal and lie, so therefore it is also a heavy sin. Also, I feel like hell is an incentive used by people to keep themselves and others from committing a sin or doing something bad, since they will be afraid that they will go to hell in their afterlife.
DeleteThe word sin means to commit an immoral act that breaks a law, or is illegal. It is something that is morally incorrect to do and it should be punished if the act is committed. The people who determine whether an act is a sin is the society. If the society feels like a law was broken or someone went against the rules of society, then it can be considered as a sin. But in some instances, sins are committed for the good of people. For example, I have heard a story about a man who stole medicine that was too expensive for his wife with cancer. He could not afford the medicine, so he no other choice than to steal it. This act was considered sin in his society, but I do not believe he was driven by evil motives. On the other hand, this man’s act can not be considered a sin because he was doing this to save his wife’s life. Defining sin and deciding whether an act is a sin or not is based on a person’s morals and background. My definition would be any act that harms other individuals strongly.
ReplyDeleteHi Nina,
DeleteI definitely agree with your ideas, and found your ideas to be very refreshing. You are absolutely right in saying that what can be viewed as immoral by society may have been done with good intentions. That said, even murder can be committed for good intentions, and what defines good and evil is a very heated and difficult topic. I applaud you on thinking up a unique viewpoint.
I find your response interesting, since what you have stated is very controversial. Society deems any lawbreaker as sinful, despite his or her motive for breaking the law. However, I do agree with your opinion that someone is not sinful because he or she commits an act that breaks the law. Rather, it is his or her motive that defines whether he or she is sinful.
DeleteI totally agree with the fact that something others consider to be a sin can actually be for the greater good. It might have been seen as a bigger sin if the man, instead of stealing medicine for his wife, just watched her die and did nothing about it because he didn't have the money. Each person views certain actions as sins depending on their background. Without hearing the background story of the man, many people would have probably thought the man committed a great sin by stealing.
DeleteRESPONSE TO PROMPT #4
ReplyDeleteI definitely believe that there are hierarchy to sins,and that this hierarchy is determined by the damage the sin causes to the victim. Out of the seven sins, there are some such as Gluttony that do not adversely affect others. Such sins I feel are at the bottom of the hierarchy, the "least evil sin" per se. Above that would be crimes such as stealing or vandalism that affect the property of others. Above that are acts that physically damage or affect another such as assault. Above that would come murder, as it is one of the most damaging acts one can perform. However, I believe the most reprehensible act of them all to be rape rather than murder. While murder is horrifying, at least the victim is put out of their misery, and sometimes may even die a completely painless death. While they are deprived of life, they are dead now, so it hardly matters. Rape however, not only permanently damages an individual, but also leaves them alive so they have to go through life after such a damaging experience. Rape is a complete violation of everything we can hold dear and is the most foul act possible. No other can come close.
My reaction to the film was mainly surprise. I thought it would be much more violent and gory since it is a rated R film,but that was not the case. I was surprised by how little bloodshed there was. However, the murders themselves were very grotesque and horrible. I was excited to see how they all connect, and amazed that each murder was based off of a sin. At the end I expected the head of Mills' wife to be in the box, but even though I knew I was shocked. I was wondering who envy was but then found out it was the killer himself, and he made the detective wrath. I thought that was horrible that he forced someone to become wrath, and that was also different compared to the other victims. For the other victims the killer already labeled them as one of the seven sins so therefore killed them. I didn't expect him to be a sin himself, or make someone a sin.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, the movie gave a lot of surprises to me. I also had expected the movie to be much more violent and scary. I found the overall story line to be very intriguing and quite unique.
DeleteThere is definitely a hierarchy of sins. Different degrees of sins will result in different forms of punishment paid for committing the sin. On the hierarchy of sins, lying and deceiving is labeled as the lightest sin, however in my opinion, there are different degrees of a lie. For example, if someone lies about something that will not hurt anyone, not even themselves, such as some people saying "I have a cat" when they actually do not have any pets, it does not count as a heavy sin, since it makes no difference to anyone who hears or know of it. However, lying can often be associated with, and often leads to murder, stealing, betrayal and many other sins. A lie that will harm the person who is associated with it is considered a heavy sin and the person who commits the lie will and should be punished with it.
ReplyDeleteI disagree that there is a hierarchy between sins because each sin in a certain context can lead to the same disastrous results. Lies, which seem somewhat harmless, can undoubtedly lead to a murder. Gluttony for example, which seems to only harm the glutton, may cause deaths as well; in places where food or water is scarce, a glutton which consumes everything may very well be the cause of death for many others. All sins are equal because they can all cause equal harm.
DeleteThe movie Seven is a very good movie. It exceeded my expectations in its depth of content; each scene has a meaning to the overall message of the story, which is all concluded in the end of the movie. Each scene is carefully constructed to build a quality suspense. At first I believed the introduction of the child was simply a side story, however, it plays its important role in the end by enhancing David's feelings for vengeance. Overall the movie does a great job at talking about each of the seven sins and explaining what they are.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Aaron, I did not think of the child being used to enhance David's feelings. Very good analysis!
DeleteI also enjoyed the movie very much. The suspense the director used contributed substantially to my enjoyment of the film. I found that wrath seemed to be the most important sin in John Doe's eyes, him saving it for the final sin. The child part was very unexpected and heightened my dislike for John before he was shot. I also thought that the sins were explained quite well in Seven.
DeleteI also enjoyed the movie very much. The suspense the director used contributed substantially to my enjoyment of the film. I found that wrath seemed to be the most important sin in John Doe's eyes, him saving it for the final sin. The child part was very unexpected and heightened my dislike for John before he was shot. I also thought that the sins were explained quite well in Seven.
DeleteSin is defined as an immoral act that is seen as breaking divine law. Although it refers specifically to laws set by God, it can also been taken in a legal context or for purely moral or immoral actions. Sin is anything that is a transgression against what society values or deems acceptable, be it character flaws, beliefs, or actions. A sin cannot be defined only by its adhesion to a set of characteristics. Always the context of the sin must be taken into account for it to be thought of as such. A sin means that you have done something that both you and society know is wrong. You cannot innocently sin, as sin is implied in you knowing that is not morally right or acceptable.
ReplyDeleteI agree with that a sin cannot be defined only by the action, but that the act also has to compared to the context in order for someone to deem it as sinful.
DeleteAlso agree with your point that one cannot innocently sin.
I thought the movie did a very good job of portraying David slowly breaking down until he became a murderer as well. John wanted this to happen so the story would be remembered and people would fear sin again. The movie used suspense very well on the crime scenes before the bodies are seen, in the chase scene, as well as the ending climax. What you do not see can sometimes be worse than if you can, this being shown in the final box scene, which made the viewer imagine the head in the box rather than showing it. This is more psychologically scary rather than gross-out/gore scary which is usually pretty cheesy. I drew some comparisons to Silence of the Lambs in Seven, the film perhaps drawing some inspiration from the cinematography and storyline of Silence of the Lambs.
ReplyDeleteThat is a very good analysis of the movie, I agree how that the movie didn't show the gory of some murder scenes, and I definitely imagined how awful it might have been. For example, in the end scene with the box in the head, I probably imagined something far worse than how it might have been portrayed in the movie. That hidden suspense also allows us to be more involved and think about the movie deeper.
DeleteI agree I think the the movie did a very good job of allowing the audience to connect with David. Throughout the movie you see him getting more and more angry at the killer and he goes against his morals many times. When he breaks into Jon Doe's house he breaking code but he does this out of pure emotion.
DeleteI agree with you. The movie shows David Mills, from a detective who hates the murderer to he willing to becomes a murderer. I also thinks Mills done thing by emotions not thinking about what will happen.
DeleteI agree with your analysis of the movie. I think it's more of a psychological thriller than a horror movie. David's psychological breakdown was very realistic which made it scarier.
DeleteI thought the movie was really well done with the suspense and portrayal of sin in different forms. I liked how each murder scene had the associated sin written but we didn't know why he killed each one till the end. The climax was also very suspenseful since I never thought John Doe would become the 6th sinner causing Mills to be the 7th. I suspected that John was going to kill Somerset and Mills, but then they both will end up killing him and result in the incompletion of the entire sin killings. However, it turned out that John had committed his own sin which gave the movie a really good climax for the audience. Overall, I liked how specific to the sin each killing was, for example the obese man was fed until he died. And that,the movie kept on moving along and I was hooked from the start to the end. The only addition I wish they had included in the movie is what truly sparked this well-educated man to have such mindset and commit these twisted murders.
ReplyDeleteI agree! I would have loved to see a bit more of the killer's strategies in terms of developing the murder scenes and so forth. I think that this would give more depth towards the movie in terms of providing more entertainment.
DeleteFirst off, knowing that the movie casts Morgan Freeman, Kevin Spacey, and Brad Pitt, along with being directed by David Fincher already gives me high expectations for the movie. I was a bit wary in the beginning because the seven deadly sins is a theme widely explored in movies, writing, and any media really. I thought to twist the sins against the "sinners" was a basic concept, but through the way the film depicts how each murder was committed made it interesting. My favorite part of the movie is the plot twist at the end because I like how the suspense slowly built through the car ride with Doe taunting Mill subtly knowing that both of them would be killed (Doe physically, and Mills mentally when learning his wife and unborn child are murdered). Overall, the film met my expectations and I can see how it relates to Dante's Inferno through the study of the seven sins.
ReplyDelete2. Write your reactions to the film
ReplyDeleteI thought the film was very interesting. The seven sins had very creative murders. I think John Doe was a genius. He also made a lot of sense in the end of the movie. He was the messenger of god and the people he killed weren't as innocent as the media. He was supposed to be God's messenger and killed people according to their sins. I think that the movie was pushing the idea that in the world today sins are overlooked. The ending of the movie was very intense. I didn't think that David would kill him. Overall I really liked the movie and felt that it was very interesting.
I agree with you kevin I think that John was a genius. being able to make the point that the world overlooks so many of the sins that it takes such a drastic measure to be taken to make people realize his points.
DeleteI also agree with the fact that John Doe was a genius. He was able to plan his idea almost a year in advance and predict everything that was going to happen.
Delete1. I think Inferno and Se7en are similar as they both show the punishments that sinners face. This is done in Inferno through a tour of hell, and in the movie John Doe takes on the job of the punisher. It's interesting how in both scenarios, the way that sinners pay for their crimes is related to the crime. For example, in the movie, the gluttony victim was killed by forced overeating and the sloth victim was tied to a bed for a year. Similarly, in the book, fortune tellers are forced to walk around with their heads on backwards so they can't see where they are going, as they were previously trying to see the future. This shows that both Se7en and Inferno have similar sense of poetic justice.
ReplyDeleteI think the movie was a very well written story and that it did a very good job drawing the audience. The ending of the movie is very abrupt and surprising and it leaves the audience wanting more. The use of the seven sins added depth to the movie and it allowed the audience to somewhat connect with the killer. The killer is not just insane but he is angry at the world and how people treat themselves and others. That is something the audience can connect with. Overall I think the best park of the movie was the writing. The movie was pretty long but I was never bored or thought that the movie was repeating itself. The use of the seven sins made it harder to understand and drew me into the movie more.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, the plot was well thought out and it seems that there aren't any plot holes. Characters who were killed were well described and depicted for which ever sin they represented.
DeleteTo me, sin has a lot of connotations and does not really have a definite meaning. In my opinion, peoples' opinion on sin is different between person to person. I personally think sin is to an act that someone commits that they view as being immoral and in most cases is illegal. I know my grandparents define sin as the seven deadly sins only: pride, envy, wrath, gluttony, lust, sloth, and greed. I do not think I have done anything that I would personally label as being sinful, but that is just how I think. I think in order to define sin, you first have to look into what you believe is moral and ethical, then you have the ability to judge what you would consider as being sinful. For example, in the Scarlet Letter when Hester and Dimmesdale sleep together, it is an act of love and passion, but to the society sees it as sinful for Hester to have slept with another man since she is technically married, even though she has not him in many years.
ReplyDeleteI personally think that the definition of sin is largely arbitrary. As you said, the definition of sin varies from person to person thus I guess I agree with you. I personally think that many of the 7 deadly sins are only deadly when taken way too far. Such as lust to the point where others are hurt others to satisfy that lust, gluttony and greed to the point where others have nothing. However I think enjoying food, possessions, and other such things in moderation isn't a problem.
DeleteThe movie is very good, but it is not scary and horror. The movie is very intense, and everything is linked together. The two characters in the movie are very different. One of them is very calm and thinks before he does anything. Another one is Mills, he done things by his emotions. At the end, Mills knows his wife and the baby are killed by John Doe and he should not killed him. But he still killed John Doe and makes himself become a murderer, who he hates throughout the movie. I do not like the ending because I think they should show what is in the box to push the audience's emotion more. Overall, I will recommend it to people to watch it because it shows the sins that people can have.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you because I think that this movie did a good job emphasising the fact how these sins have an affect on people even though we don't put much attention on it. It is interesting how the movie makes us rethink about how we act.
DeleteI felt that the movie was good until the ending. With how the previous sins had worked, having Doe be Envy and Mills be Wrath just doesn't make sense when the other people killed fits their sin much better. Doe being envy of Mill's life doesn't deserve death / isn't a very extreme version of envy. Someone who is very rich, shallow, and is always envious of anyone who has anything better then he/she would be a better choice. Just being jealous of one person and killing their wife over it doesn't really count when Doe was clearly not very jealous over the other people he killed. He is not a one dimensional character like the other deaths (Gluttony, Greed, Lust, etc.) so his character shouldn't be solely boxed as "Envy". The same argument goes for Mills. He is self-described as an emotional person, and thus labeling him as wrath takes away from the fact that he is very capable of love and forgiveness. Just because a person shows a characteristic of a sin, it doesn't mean that that person should be that sin incarnate (as the movie seems to suggest).
ReplyDeleteOther than that however I found the movie to be quite enjoyable.
2. The movie Seven is a good movie that depicts the seven deadly sins. John, the killer, has meaning behind each kill, and shows why each one needed to die. David was completely consumed by the case, and wouldn't let anything go. He refused to let anything go. It was to the extreme where his wife was murdered because John was envious of David's life. They are somewhat similar. John kills people according to the sins, and David arrests people according to the law. I feel like the two characters somewhat parallel each other. Each of the victims was planned out, and in the end David expected to be led to the final two bodies, but ended up being the final killer.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete2. I remember watching the movie many many years ago and I didn't understand the movie and plot as well as I do now. When I first watched it, I only thought of it as a typical detective and serial killer movie; and in this case the villian was a deranged man who thought he was empowered by God. However after watching this now, I picked up more relevant information such as the 7 deadly sins being the creativity behind each murder. The ending also impressed me more watching it the second time because I understand and kind of appreciate how "John Doe" planned it out so that he would become a martyr and finish the remaining 2 sins in the finale. I also noticed much more symbolism, such as the name "John Doe" so that it could be anyone doing "God's Work". John Doe's/Kevin Spacey's character and acting impressed me too. He pulled of an almost quirky but calculating character, one who was so set forth in his convictions and was incredibly intelligent but also weird at the same time. Doe seemed to twitch and his facial emotions made the character seem much more real and human, not just a sinister murdering machine like Freddy or other archetypal movie serial killers.
ReplyDeleteThe ending also impressed me because I understood and appreciated how John Doe planned it out. However, I do not believe that Kevin Spacey did a good job of portraying the character because often times what John Doe said seemed to be fake(acting) and did not seem real
DeleteI personally believe that there are no such thing as hell. Many praises that afterlife is something peaceful where all species are equal. Some people and culture believes that afterlife is separated to heaven and hell, to award all living things action, and punish if necessary. It is untrue to say that some has sin, and some doesn't, in fact all living things have sins in mind and all sins are equally heavy to one another. I believe that afterlife is phrased in such way because it is afterlife. People have suffered while they were alive, carrying the sin and once at afterlife the sin is lifted to launch off to new future.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you Sho. I don't believe there is a place called hell either. However i don't agree with you about the concept of afterlife. I believe that once a human dies, he/she becomes a dead flesh, and holds no spiritual value.
DeleteI do agree with you when you say that it is untrue that some people have sinned and some have not, but I disagree with the sins all being equal. In my opinion, everyone has done something wrong in their lives, and they should not necessarily be eternally punished for it. Still, everyone has a different definition of sin, which also comes with different level and intensities of the sin. To say that all sins or wrongdoings are equal is like saying that murder is just as bad as jaywalking. This is do not believe. Also, even though you do not believe in a "hell" you do believe in an afterlife. I think that this is interesting. It made me realize that everyone likely has their own definition and idea of what life after death will be, just as they have a different definition of sin.
DeleteI thought the movie did a very good job of portraying David slowly breaking down until he became a murderer as well. John wanted this to happen so the story would be remembered and people would fear sin again. The movie used suspense very well on the crime scenes before the bodies are seen, in the chase scene, as well as the ending climax. What you do not see can sometimes be worse than if you can, this being shown in the final box scene, which made the viewer imagine the head in the box rather than showing it. This is more psychologically scary rather than gross-out/gore scary which is usually pretty cheesy. I drew some comparisons to Silence of the Lambs in Seven, the film perhaps drawing some inspiration from the cinematography and storyline of Silence of the Lambs.
ReplyDeleteI thought the screenplay of the movie was quite fascinating. The way one conflict after another began to unfold, it was really easy to stay hooked to the movie throughout. I would say my personal favorite scene in the film is the climax. No other part of the movie made me as excited and curious as the climax did. A major highlight for the film was the top-notch acting by the main characters. Overall the concept of the seven different sins is quite unique and I think that will be how the movie and the book are connected. Even in the movie we see a reference to Dante's Inferno when they are researching about sins. I think the book will also talk about how the 7 sins affect a person's life and so on. One thing that surprised me regarding the movie is that it was not as scary as I had expected it to be.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the Climax was very interesting. However, I thought that the scene in the car, when John Doe and the detectives were discussing the murders, was the most interesting part of the entire movie. It was during that moment that the personalities of John Doe and his passion for committing his horrible crimes is made clear. I think that this scene clarified John Doe's actions very well.
Delete3. Sin can be defined as an act of evil. This can be interpreted as breaking the laws of society, such as stealing or killing someone. However, it can also apply to immoral acts, such as lying, which is not against the law but can still be considered a sin. The movie Seven incorporates both aspects of this definition in its plot, as John Doe commits the sin of killing people, which is against the law. Additionally, the reason John Doe kills all these people is because they committed sins of all kinds, such as being too fat or being corrupt. However, I believe that the second type of sins should not necessarily be punished, as there are too many ways of committing a sin. Furthermore, what people believe to be a sin may vary from person to person. One person may think that dressing inappropriately is a sin while another may not. Therefore, in the movie, John Doe wasn't correct for doing his work, and he wasn't correct that he would be an example to follow. His idea of showing the world the sins that people bear is not something anyone can have control over. His opinions may be different from others, and if anything, he's the sinner for killing so many people. That's why the word sin doesn't exactly relate to crime. While it can be used interchangeably with crime, its other definition relating to immorality has no place in justice.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your point that sins is relative so punishing one for committing a sin, like John Doe did, isn't necessarily right and a sin in itself.
DeleteI find very interesting how you made the distinction between the two different types of "sin" in society, law-breaking vs moral-breaking. I agree that the second type of sin should not be part of the law, as mix government and religion, which is funny as that is the same conclusion the founding fathers made ~250 years ago.
DeleteI think sin is something a person does that goes against his or her own morals or something done intentionally that harms other people both emotionally and physically. For instance, if you accidentally step on someone's foot, although you may have physically hurt the other person, it isn't a sin because it was an accident. But let's say you step on someone's foot because you were mad at him or her or you wanted revenge, then that's a sin. It's a sin because you're stepping on someone's foot well knowing you shouldn't but you still let the worst of your emotions get to you. Everyone is sinful whether they like to admit it or not. We have all lied before and I'm sure we were all once jealous of someone else at one point. These things may seem small but they are still considered sins because at the end of the day, these things can potentially hurt other people.
ReplyDeleteI agree that sin is everywhere whether we like it or not. But unlike John Doe's plan of fighting sin with sin, I think sin is more of something that has to be dealt with. It's impossible to completely erase sin, and honestly, sin is necessary because it gives people free will and the choice between good and bad. There are also many sins that are not detrimental to other people, like not wearing your own seatbelt.
DeleteI liked the movie because it was interesting how they put such emphasis on the seven sins and how people usually don't put much attention to the subject. It was interesting how it was actually quite relatable because people to a certain degree have the seven sins but it is considered as emotions instead of sins. In society, I think that many people disregard the fact that they are so motivated by these sins. In the movie, Mills was motivated by his anger at first and soon it turned to wrath. The killer was motivated because he wanted to preach something but soon became envious of Mill's normal life. He wanted to pursue that life but his envy caused him to kill Tracy. I think that this movie did a good job on showing people how much the sins really affect our lives and how people are motivated by it.
ReplyDeleteI agree that certain emotions are seen as sins according to the religion. What striked me is the how accurately John was able to describe society, and how all the sins are disregarded on a daily basis. The motivations of these sins are indeed portrayed well in the film.
DeleteMy reaction to the film is that it was very interesting to see John Doe carrying out his master plan. The film also portrays the seven deadly sins very well by showing the victims and the committed sin, so that the average person can follow along with the film without any prior knowledge. The ending of the movie is very interesting because it was very hard for Detective Mills to do the right thing and make the correct decision. This is because he was filled with Wrath at the time which in by John Doe's theory, Mill is a sinner and deserves the punishment. I think the film is trying to say that even in the worst situations, one shouldn't commit these sins but it is also very easy for the people of the world to react that way
ReplyDeleteI think that your analysis is really nice. I agree that the movie portrayed the sins very well. Thank you for pointing out that the end of them movie was interesting. I agree with that.
DeleteI disagree with your opinion. I don't think Mill deserves punishment. John Doe had major flaws throughout the plot and was hypocritical at times, but he excused himself from it because of how deranged he was. For example, the woman who killed herself after her face was cut up couldve been a nice person on the inside, it was his actions that forced her to be "ugly on the inside" and decide to kill herself.
DeleteI personally don’t believe in the idea of Hell. A lot of people describe Hell as a scorching place of extreme torture, where sinful people go in the afterlife to be punished. I don’t think that Hell is real, since the majority of explanations locate Hell in another dimension or in the Earth’s core, and it is impossible to verify any evidence of Hell’s existence. I think a lot of people believe in Hell to justify their religious faith, or to have motivation to be as free of sin as possible. Many people might not believe in Hell because of its lack of evidence, or because they believe that good deeds are important simply to be a good person, not just to ensure admission to Heaven.
ReplyDeleteI thought that the film portrayed the biblical sins very well in the context of modern day life. The film succeeds in creating tension by creating scenes that steadily become more and more fast paced. I thought it was interesting how John Doe was able to manipulate and guess the detective's actions. It seems as if even though John Doe is the antagonist, he was able to succeed in the end and trumps the law. This could be a message from the director stating that sins are the law beyond the law. Even when breaking the law, even John Doe himself falls to a sin.
ReplyDeleteOne line that stuck with me was when John and Mills were talking on the car and John states that people don't do things because of the consequences. In this case "consequences" could relate to the consequence of the law or of the sins. Ultimately, Mills falls under both consequences and John only falls under the consequence of a sin.
This movie was made to show the flaws in our society to warn us that societal laws are put beyond sins and people commit sins to achieve what they want. This movie questions human morality because it shows what people are willing to do to fulfill their own desires. Even though John states that he only falls under the sin of envy, his breaking of the law shows that societal laws seem to override the moral code of many.
I agree, I thought this movie did a really great job of portraying sins. John Doe was a great antagonist who challenged the views of his society. Although he ultimately "won" I believe nothing will change because people will write him off as lunatic.
DeleteA sin is an immoral act that is against the law. Most think of murder when thinking about sin, but sin is a very broad term that has a many different sides to it. Everyone has their own moral compass, so something that one person views as a sin may not be the same for another person. Also the dictionary definition adds that a sin is an immoral act that breaks the LAW or is ILLEGAL, but there are many things that can be considered sins that don't break any laws. A sin can only be a true sin if the person committing the action has bad intentions because everyone has their own situations in which they had no other choice but to "sin".
ReplyDeleteI agree with this, I think that there are things that can be considered sins even if they don't break any laws. However, I think even if someone doesn't have any bad intentions, they can still sin. Even though they were forced, it is still considered a sin. I don't think anyone should blame them though.
DeleteI agree that there are many things that can be considered sinful, even if they don't break the law or are illegal. However, I do think that sins can be committed unintentionally, without intent to harm someone else. There are situations in which we unknowingly do the wrong thing and hurt the people around us -- this is still a "sin," regardless of whether or not we should be punished or held accountable for it. A sin at its core is a immoral wrongdoing, and even if the transgression can't be directly blamed on someone, it is still considered a sin at the end of the day.
DeleteIn people's eyes, any sin is considered irredeemable. For example, when applying for a job, any type of crime (be it stealing mentos or murdering someone) is considered a basis to not give the applicant the position. Sinning is considered crossing a line, and once crossed society no longer sees how far over the line the sinner stepped (only that they did). I think that when comparing sin to other sins however, there is definitely a hierarchy--petty thieves are given more moderate reprimands than murderers, vandals are given shorter sentences than armed robbers.
ReplyDeleteThese, however, are more physical/"practical" sins--they are textbook definitions. I believe that the worst sin that someone can commit is betraying their moral compass. This can cover a wide range of acts, from murder to simply saying or doing something you don't believe in. I would consider this to be the worst sin as it is the one that you would remember the most and feel the most guilty for.
Mihir, I completely agree with this. All sinners are considered to be bad because they have the same motive. The magnitude of their sin does not matter. As a result, the worst sin is to stray away from your morality.
DeleteThe movie was very thought-provoking. It did not have gore for the sake of gore, but it was clever and more of a psychological horror.
ReplyDeleteI think the serial killer's interpretation of sin was very interesting. The people he choose had "sinned" and he felt that he was doing God's work by killing them. However, to the detectives, the victims were innocent. It's interesting how the sins the victims committed seem so unimportant in our world. The seven deadly sins are so commonplace that the people who commit them are described as innocent, but to God these sins would condemn them to hell.
I also like the fact that the movie didn't feel like a horror movie, but one that is just very dark. This is because it does not rely on gore and jump scares to make it creepy, although there are some gorey scenes. This is also a reason why I enjoyed Seven a lot, while I do not really enjoy other conventional "scary" films.
DeleteI personally liked the fact that you could foreshadow the end during the car ride. Once I knew the seven sins, I attempted to guess how the story would end. The more I guessed who John Doe killed, the more hooked I was into the story.
DeleteI agree with Amanda, it really puts in perspective how much we sin for some of them to be considered normal. It also shows us that there is a hierarchy of sin, because we considered those victims as innocent but John Doe as evil, even though they have all sinned
DeleteI agree with you, I think context is really important because to John Doe, what he was doing was the right thing. This is why it can be hard to judge crimes, since people can have opposing views of how severe a sin really is.
DeleteMy reaction to the film was that it was a pretty dark movie. I only really paid attention to the end and I found the carride part kind of confusing. They were all talking to him as if it was just a normal day. Also I did not like the way the murderer ended up getting killed because I feel like he did not suffer enough. In the end where the detective shoots him he got tricked into becoming wrath. The entire time in the car ride the detective got triggered really easily. I think this film was well thought out.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on your point about detective Mills getting triggered really easily when Doe said that he spared the detective's life. I found the ending to be the most interesting part because it showed how Doe's masterpiece was brought to an end in a stunning fashion. The twist ending of Mill's embodying wrath as his sin and Doe being envious of him was a really artistic ending. If the movie simply had two more random people die for the last two sins, it would not have a scene as dramatic and climatic as the one where Mills shoots Doe after finding out that his pregnant wife is now dead. Overall, I would recommend the film not only those who are going to read the Inferno, but also to the casual movie viewer looking for a great suspenseful action/drama.
DeleteThe film went beyond my expectations. Actually I did expect a lot because it had Brad Pitt, Morgan Freeman, and Kevin Spacey, but it still surprised me. I liked the monologue Spacey’s character went on about how there are so many people involved in corrupt activities, yet nothing is done about them, because it’s a true fact. The “sins’ that John Doe talk about are common in today’s world, so common that it is simply tolerated. The ending is an incredible one that I do not think could have been any better. Doe’s plan of making Detective MIlls commit the last sin is a brilliant ending, because if Doe had just killed two more strangers the film would have been boring. It was kind of satisfying to see the villain win for once in a movie, and I didn’t like Mills too much because he seems to be a character that acts on emotion, and does not think.
ReplyDeleteThe movie Seven really opened my eyes to how everyday people react to sin of the streets. The antagonist of this movie, John Doe, explains how our society ignores the deadly sins that we see in our daily lives. This new perspective made me slow down and see things for how they actually are. I never realized how many things my mind automatically filtered out to make my perception of life as great as it is.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you nodnarb that society could at times be ignorant. I think the movie tested the evils of mankind and showed how we overlook so many things that happen in our daily lives.
DeleteI believe sin means doing something against a set of rules defined strictly by a higher power. Sin being defined as doing the wrong thing doesn't make sense unless someone has created a set of morals which are able to label something as wrong. Therefore, sin is more of a violation of rules set by a higher power, such as religious morals or government.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Daron's definition of sin. Different cults and governments have their own sin, and a sin is just a violation of rules set by a higher power.
DeleteBased on the film Seven, I believe Inferno will focus on the seven virtues in the Catholic religion. The film shows how individuals react to sins committed daily in society, which leads to a hopeless society. Therefore, Inferno may discuss the hopelessness in the world and how because of all the sins, the world is dark and bare. Though the movie was very graphic, I enjoyed how everything was portrayed. The film highlighted how troubling some of the sins can be and how easily people can get swept into them. However, the most surprising thing to me was how I felt about the seven deadly sins. The sins occur so much in the world that it's not even a shock if someone is greedy or if someone is a prostitute. We hear of so many instances of people like these it seems natural, but in reality, it is corruption. This goes to show that the world seems strange without corruption and that says something about our society.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, the movie Seven was a really interesting way to show different perspectives of how people perceive sin. John Doe uses a very extreme method to make society aware of the sins present in society. Even though the method was extremely violent, it definitely caught the attention of many in society. Overall, I really liked the movie. I liked how everything circled together to complete all seven sins. Like how Brad Pitt unknowingly fell into John Doe's trap. John Doe planned so far ahead to complete the seven sins. The film was very well thought out, and I hope to get a similar experience from the book we're reading in class!
ReplyDeleteI agree that the movie was fascinating, but I found it to be fascinating in perhaps a more dark manner. I found parts of the movie to be disturbing, and that the story's very premise to be hypocritical, yet if that's the message it tries to convey - that John Doe is a hypocrite - it does a poor job showing this at the end, with Mills simply being driven away in a police car instead of having a talk at the end and emerging a better man in some way. Rather, it ends with simply Doe winning, showing that murdering in the name of God or other causes is okay - similar to what ISIS says they're doing. That's not acceptable in my view.
DeleteThe film Seven was very interesting. I was surprised to see how strongly the man felt for his actions. It was as if he was trying to play the roll of God, he truly he believed he was doing the right thing. Clearly that is not what God would have wanted someone to do considering how strong forgiveness is implemented into the religion. The end of the film was not what I expected, it showed how even the best of people can succumb to the darkness. Detective Mills' actions were exactly what the murderer wanted him to do in order to complete his masterpiece. He wanted to prove a point that he could turn him into a murderer and sinner.
ReplyDeleteInteresting analysis. Seeing that you think that John Doe thought he was god is an interesting concept. He was very maniacal but did what he thought was best. Based on what you are saying, it seems that Mills can be seen and viewed as a sinner as well.
DeleteYes, I think there is a hierarchy of sin. For example, murdering someone is far different from simply being negligent or careless, an important distinction to make in cases such as manslaughter and murder, because the latter is far more criminal than the former and should be punished as such. Likewise, in Christian literature, a good person who doesn't accept Christianity has committed a much less severe sin than a murderer. However, this opens the door to other issues, such as murdering to prevent a far more severe crime from being committed, and is that as severe of a sin as any other murder. Thus, intent is the correct way of judging our actions.
ReplyDeleteI agree that there is a clear hierarchy of sin and that intent is key when it comes to determining how sinful an action is. It is important to remember that some people are put in very difficult situations that cause them to take actions that they normally wouldn't. Although people should take personal responsibility for their actions whenever possible, there are times when desperation leads people to do things that would ordinarily be considered morally wrong.
DeleteI do think that there are different levels of sin, as there is a degree to which a crime can either be punishable by an overnight stay at a jail cell, or by a death sentence. It is improbable to kill every person because of a minute crime that was done. I find that John Doe virtually has no practical reason as to kill all the people that he did. I agree on the idea that they have committed sins, and should be punished, however, death isn't the answer. Change is key, which continues to develop society. If the government decides to kill every person that has problems, then society itself wouldn't be able to grow. The progressive nature of every failure brings in the idea that there is always something to learn. With this serial killer, he believes that the only answer to all sin is death. The death of a person would somehow resolve all problems in society. In fact, I think that is naive, and perhaps cowardly to result to death at such circumstances of gluttony, greed and so forth.
ReplyDeleteIt is understandable if there is a death penalty given to a person who has committed a grave crime of murdering innocent civilians, however, that shouldn't be the only step taken towards solving the problem. There should be a follow up protocol of preventing such instances.
Prompt 2: As with many other horror films, I thought the movie was going to have a basic plot with heavy graphical work. I was surprised to find out that the movie was only scary due to its intricate plot. The movie alluded to the seven deadly sins mentioned in Dante's Inferno. The actors also went above and beyond in portraying their roles, especially Kevin Spacey (as John Doe). It was also surprising to see the villain get the upper hand in the end of the movie, as Mills was arrested for killing John Doe. Overall, I thought that the film was well thought out, and I highly recommend this film to anyone accustomed with thriller/horror movies.
ReplyDeleteTo me a sin is an intentional wrongdoing. To me it is an act you commit knowing that it can hurt someone or if it goes against the morals you set for yourself. I think that a sin is also determined by where you committed it. Different places, develop different cultures, and different social boundaries. Something you do that can be considered a sin somewhere may be normal, or socially acceptable elsewhere. An example would be polygamy which many people consider as a sin of lust, however there are many societies who accept it and sees it as a norm. The meaning of the word sin has also changed over time as we develop and learn more about the brain. For example gay marriage used to be frowned upon, and seen as distasteful and an act against god, but as we develop as a society we have started accepting this, and now many people don't look at it as a sin.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your definition as well as with what you said about the meaning of the word sin changing over time, especially over gay rights. Location does determine the sin, and also sometimes determines exactly how grave the sin is too, I think.
DeleteI enjoyed the movie Se7en, especially the twist at the end revealing the sins of Envy and Wrath. Though the villain is considered almost undeniable insane (having tortured a man for over a year to exact out his plan of sins), his diabolical agenda exposed how fragile man really is, with Detective Mills giving in to taking vengeance at the end of the film for his beheaded wife. He shows how we see sin every single day yet, some forms of it extreme and others more subtle, yet we do nothing about it. Sin can be defined in many forms and ways, as wrongdoing is subjective
ReplyDeleteAlthough we haven't finished the film yet, I have found it to be very engaging so far. It has been interesting to see all of the different and disgusting ways John Doe punishes his victims, and I'm excited to see what happens at the end once they reach their destination. I think the movie as a whole, and especially its relationship to Inferno, should make more sense after that. I was especially surprised when the guy tied down for a year was still alive. I was also interested that so many people would prefer, for example, to cut out a pound of their own flesh or eat until they die rather than just be shot, whereas I would expect myself to just take a bullet at that point.
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, sin is basically wrongdoing. In today's society though, the word sin has a very heavy and negative connotation. For example, when we forget to pay back a dollar that we borrowed from a friend, we would never call it a sin. On the other hand, many people would consider it to be sin if someone murdered another person. What sets "sin" apart to me is the fact that is also has a religious connotation. In the Bible, Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden of Eden for sinning. Thus sin could also be thought of as defying or disregarding tenets of the Bible, or one's religious doctrine. Finally, I think that everyone has their own definition of sin. This definition can be shaped by one's mindset, upbringing, or religious affiliation. So even the points that I brought up could be viewed as completely different by someone with a different definition of sin.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with you about the fact that the definition of sin is different from each individual. I would say that there are some people who are more extreme towards this concept of sin and those are ones who have a strong affiliation towards their religious beliefs. This means that for every wrongdoing an individual commits, they would find the act as immoral and an action that is considered to be a disgrace towards society and the Lord. When these people who have this mindset commit sins to themselves, they ask for repentance from God.
DeleteHowever, in my philosophy, what people should consider is that a sin is an immoral act that is done out of pure intent, even though the one who commits it knows that it is unjust. For example, if one murders his close friend out of envy, the person would most likely know that murdering is actually wrong, but does it to express his hostility towards the other individual. In other words, the individual would show that it is be fair if that person's life gets taken away from the superior qualities that he/she has over the other person. In their interpretation, it would be fair and just for the person to be killed. However, if there was an incident when one commits a wrongdoing on accident, then it would not be highly considered a sin.
The main point I would try to make is the fact that no matter what actions an individual commits, as long as he/she learns from his/her mistakes and doesn't do it again, he/she would be likely to be forgiven and this ideology remains universal in all societies.
Yes, I believe that there is a hierarchy of sin. Some actions are clearly worse than others. For example, committing murder is more sinful than stealing, even though both would be considered sins. Additionally, the reasoning behind an action also influences how sinful the action is. Stealing may be justified when it is necessary to do something like save a life, and therefore not be very sinful. However, a rich person stealing from the poor would be considered a far worse offense. In my opinion, the worst sin that an individual can commit is unjustified murder. Human life is a very valuable thing, and killing others without any logical reason is the worst thing that one can do. However, sin can be subjective, and some people may perceive the same actions as more or less sinful than others.
ReplyDeleteI think that the film was very disturbing. From the parts I watched, there was a lot of disgusting and weird crimes that were committed by the guy. I really want to know how the movie ended, but we did not get to finish the movie yet. Although the film was engaging and interesting (at times), I think that this film was overall a disturbing experience. The movie itself was not scary (except maybe the sloth part), but the ideas and the way that the serial killer murdered his victims was cruel and almost unimaginable. I also think that the way of thinking of the serial killer may have had a point to it, but the way that he expressed his thinking was totally wrong. The irony is that he is punishing others for their sins, while committing many sins himself.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with you Gio! I also found the movie to be quite disturbing, even though the movie itself was not scary and lacked the gory scenes most horror movies add in. I think that the thought of what the serial killer did to his victims was the disturbing part, as the writers did a very good job coming up with such evil forms of torture and explaining it in great detail. All of these pieces of gore and fantastic writing was put together to form this captivating movie.
Delete2: I thought the film Se7en was one of the more engaging films I've watched in class. The plot was very cleverly put together, with the writers finding interesting (and gory and violent) ways to connect the murders with the seven deadly sins, especially in the end, by linking envy and wrath with Detective Mills himself. Although the John Doe in the film is no doubt insane and psychologically impaired, the movie is an excellent representation of how sin can be interpreted differently from person to person, and how people and events that we encounter in our everday lives could be considered sinful and evil without us realizing. I found it ironic that in order to rid the world of these sinners, the John Doe took it upon himself to murder them; murder is pretty much an universal sin that everyone agrees is wrong, so fighting sin with a sin of his own seems to make his whole mission counterproductive.
ReplyDeleteOverall, I found the film to be thrilling and engaging, which is hard to say of other horror/thriller movies that rely on jump scares and monsters to entertain the audience. Instead, Se7en makes use of an intricate plot and well-written story to keep the audience interested, which is admirable.
5. I believe that there is no place called Hell. This is because the world is unfair, and those who had sinned may not necessarily have to pay for what they did. The other side applies; those who have been a positive influence to others may die with a sad ending. The concept of hell was most likely created in order to lead people into the right path and not sin so they avoid "hell"and are able to go to "heaven".
ReplyDelete2: To be completely honest, Se7ven was very scary. Although the movie is interesting and thrilling, I don’t know if I would watch it again. The scenes of dead people, and showing how they looked like, made me cringe and grossed out. However, the movie itself had a very intricate, interesting plotline. The killer, John Doe, was one of the most interesting characters I have ever seen, and his thought processes are absolutely insane. The way he planned out his murders, and how patient he was, and how careful he was while committing the murders, were absolutely scary and unimaginable. Do insane people know that they are actually insane? I can’t believe all the commitment he put into finish his “work”: cutting off his own skin so his fingerprints wouldn’t show up, torturing someone for a year, putting a sword on someone’s pelvis. In the end, the killer knew that he was going to die because he killed Mill’s wife, and thus Mill would kill him. Therefore, his plan must have taken years to plan and to perfect: a “sermon” to teach the world about the seven deadly sins.
ReplyDeleteI think that he doesn't think he's insane because he truly believes that he's is ridding the world of bad people. I honestly just think that his thought process was disturbing to the point of animalistic, and it's scary to think that the writers were this disturbs to event think of murders this torturous.
DeleteSin is a controversial word, and with such a word comes a disputed definition. The word also has as religious connotation, which gives context to its origin. In my own words, sin is the name of an action that does not follow moral and ethical standards. Though everyone's interpretation of what can be considered a sin is different, ethical standard, or what the general public believes morally, should also be taken into account.
ReplyDeleteGoogle defines a sin as an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law. Committing a sin is seen as an act against God, especially in the years before and after the 1800s. To me committing a sin is when one does an act that hurts those around them may it be physically or emotionally. The definition of a sin varies depending on the culture and beliefs of other people. A horrible sin can be jealousy where a small sin can be theft depending on cultures. Punishments for sins also vary depending on cultural beliefs. In Christianity, a sin can be punishable by sending the sinner to Hell. In older societies, sins were punishable by death.
ReplyDeleteI prefer your definition of sin over Google's, detrimental physical and emotional effects are inevitable when a sin is committed. I also agree that different cultures and beliefs can result in different definitions of the word. I like the examples you used to demonstrate the different magnitudes of sins, as well as the different punishments that result from them.
Delete2. I thought that the film was a lot more immersive than I expected. When we were told about the film, I thought that it would be a simple horror movie with no substance. However, it was scary in a different way, a more psychological and immersive film. I also found a lot of the scenes very disturbing, such as that of the man who was punished for being gluttonous. The movie also showed us the mind of an individual who believed he was committing retribution on sinners of the world and those who betrayed God, and he shows how prevalent sin is in today's world.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you! The movie was not like a typical horror movie, but it was more emotionally weird and disturbing. I also agree that in today's society, there are too many sins being committed that it is being regarded as a commonplace occurence.
DeletePrompt 2: I personally greatly enjoyed this film as this film did a fantastic job portraying the subtlety between the detectives and the serial killer, John Doe, and how Detective Summerset actually used techniques most psychologists use in criminal investigation. I thought that the shocking visuals were used tastefully and didn't dominate the movie; it wasn't gore for gore's sake. Overall, I believe this movie was very well done, used its shocking visuals properly, and was overall a very good piece highlighting at how even a serial killer like John Doe is still human as are the detectives.
ReplyDeleteI didn't think I would enjoy the movie, but I actually did find a lot of the ideas illustrated to be thought-provoking. Doe's monologue in the car that sin surrounds us in daily life because it has become too common made me really think: What can seriously be categorized as sin, and what makes some sins less cruel than others? Sin is an intentional wrongdoing, but we see from the movie that there are various levels of it. Murder and rape are right at the top because it's violation without consent, but then there are "sins" like gay marriage that have quickly been redefined in society.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the conversation in the car between Doe and Somerset and Mills was very interesting. Although I definitely disagree with Doe, the way he explained his rationale weirdly made me understand. It really brings up the question of who gets to determine what is a sin and it emphasizes how different sin is to different people.
DeleteThe movie Seven clearly showcased the internal conflicts that the killer underwent when he killed his victims. In our minds, the word "sin" can represent a variety of things. Typically, severe crimes such as murder come to mind when one thinks of "sin. However, the killer in Seven has a very different idea of what it means to sin. While focusing on the sinful (in his opinion) actions of his victims, he initially neglects to understand that his own actions are considered sinful by the rest of society. In this way, the word "sin" does not have a set definition. It depends on the person and their past experiences to define it, and thus, the word sin means different things to different people. What seems to be a horrible crime to some may not be so shocking to others. I think that this sentiment can be found in modern day politics and war. For examples, many dictators and rulers commit horrible humanitarian crimes against their own people and may not find it to be as appalling as perhaps somebody from a different part of the world. In this way, it is impossible to define "sin", as it is so intensely subjective.
ReplyDeleteTo me, sin is any act that goes against moral or divine law. I believe that there are some sins that are far worse than others. For example, lying about how old you are is far worse than killing somebody. But I also think that sin is much more serious when it is intentionally trying to bring harm to someone else for your own benefits. Such as cheating people out of their money. Sins can vary in severity from area to area. For example, in some areas being gay can be punishable by death. In other areas eating pork is a sin. It really is based on the social morals and tendencies that can determine the severity of certain sins. But in my opinion, no matter where you are in the world, if you kill someone that is a sin and punishable. The severity and method of that punishment will be decided by the traditions and culture of that location.
ReplyDeleteI think there is a hierarchy of sin depending on how much your sin affects the lives of others around you. Gluttony and sloth are, in my opinion, lesser than some of the other seven deadly sins because for the most part they only affect the individual committing that sin. I would even say that such sins don’t deserve much, if any, punishment because the only person you hurt is yourself and ultimately you are in charge of your own life. On the other hand, things like greed and envy directly impact another person, such as when you hurt others because you are jealous of something they have. The worst sin is probably murder, because there is nothing more severe than taking away another’s life. However, one thing to consider is the context of the sin. Sometimes people do bad things when they think that they are preventing something even worse.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you! I also believe that the worst sin is murder, as it ends the life of someone. I think that your way of organizing the sins is a very logical way to go about it. However, I think that even gluttony and sloth can affect others, such as cannibalism or being to lazy to do things that may save others' lives, but otherwise I think that you are right.
DeleteI agree that the severity of the sin depends on if and how it affects other people, and that sins that only affect yourself aren't as severe. However, I think that sometimes there are worse sins than murder, because you can make someone feel bad for the rest of their lives, which I think is worse than just killing them. I also think that when people do bad things because they are preventing something worse, it is not a sin because letting the worse thing happen would be.
DeleteWatching the movie Se7en was a great way to introduce us to the seven deadly sins. It was informative to see how the different characters perceive sins. While Somerset and Mills obviously believe that the murders are sinful, John Doe believes that the people he killed were not innocent, and therefore he was not committing a sin. In the car ride, he justifies that the people he killed were not innocent at all by calling the prostitute disease-spreading and stating that the obese lawyer made money off people by lying. Although I generally disagree with him, he makes an interesting point about the nature of sin. If the victim of the murder was a bad person, is it still a sin? l
ReplyDeleteI agree that the movie is a great way of introducing us to the seven deadly sins. I think that it's disturbing how John Doe thought that killing the sinners would not lead to consequences. He truly felt that he was doing the right thing and that God is guiding him. It is interesting though that everyone thought that the people who were one of the deadly sins are innocent. This could be because killing is a sin that can possibly outweigh the seven deadly sins.
DeleteI thought that the film was well written and overall had a pretty well thought out twist at the end. I think that overall, the film made me feel quite uneasy, since the murders were so meticulously thought out and were designed to inflict the most pain before the victims had finally died. I also think that the order in which the victims were killed were designed so that the sins would ascend in order of “evilness.” While gluttony, the first sin introduced in the film, only harms the sinner, wrath, the last sin committed, will inevitably harm not only the sinner, but those around him. Although I'm not positive if this is true, I believe that Dante's Inferno may also introduce this hierarchy of sins in his poem.
ReplyDeleteI agree, the film made me feel uneasy and even made me lose my appetite; the film itself was very scary and intense. I think it is interesting how the killer planned out his murder in increasing levels of "evilness" as well.
DeleteAfter reading prompt number 4, I was reminded of a quote from the Kite Runner by Khaled Hosseini: “There is only one sin, only one. And that is theft. Every other sin is a variation of theft.” Under this idea, everything is stealing. Murder is the theft of life, cheating is stealing the right to fairness, and so on. I believe that theft, therefore, is the worst sin that an individual can commit. However, I believe that this is very broad, and under theft, I would say that murder, or theft of life, is the worst sin that an individual can commit. This is because other thefts like robbery or cheating are not the end of the world, and people can still live if their belongings are lost. However, if one were to be murdered, one would not be able to come back, and it would end everything for them. As for hierarchies, I believe that they are very arbitrary, and different sins will be differently weighted by different people.
ReplyDeleteThis is a pretty interesting and cool definition for sin, and I feel like theft does fit many sins, as lying is the theft of truth and, like you mentioned, murder is the theft of life. I also agree that sins are weighted differently by different people.
DeleteThe movie was very engaging. All the graphic images, or the pictures of the corpses made me a little uncomfortable, but it added to the curiosity and suspense. There were a few jump scares (or it scared me), but other than that, the movie was good. Se7en did talk about the seven sins and the murderer or John Doe killed his victims based on that order. These levels of sin are mentioned in Dante's Inferno. However, these levels of sin did not mention the evil of killing and torturing the victims. I do believe that John Doe was insane, since he somehow felt like he was higher than everyone and had the right to kill his victims. In my opinion, everyone sins on a daily basis. Even by Dante's view on sin, everyone does it frequently. Greed, envy, and gluttony especially are common, so it made me wonder why he chose those certain people to kill. In my opinion, the idea of sin in Dante's Inferno is different to the idea of sin in the Christian religion. In the Christian faith, anything from disrespecting your father and mother to murdering someone are all counted as sin and they are equal in intensity. The movie does make the idea of sin to be interesting, and it relates to Dante's 7 levels of sin. That is how John doe chose his victim and how to kill them. All it all,it was interesting but it was also very scary.
ReplyDeleteHi Katie! I agree with you that the graphic images really horrified me, especially when the corpses were shown. I did not think about how John Doe chose who to kill as well; that is really interesting. I wonder how he made those choices, because there are a lot of people who commit those sins, especially in the real world.
DeleteI read the plot beforehand and thought that the movie was going to be super gory and just overall disturbing. While it was disturbing, I didn't think that it was as gory as I thought it would be. At time, it was even pretty funny. The serial killer, as psychotic as he is, truly believed that he was doing the right thing which was kind of disturbing. Overall, I thought that Se7en was a great way of introducing us to the seven deadly sins. I was surprised at the twist at the end where the killer was able to involve himself and Detective Mills into his grand plan.
ReplyDeleteI agree! The movie was not nearly as horrific as I had anticipated (to my delighted surprise). I also believe it is a great segue into Dante's inferno, and may even say it has peaked my interest in the seven deadly sins. I thought the plot twist and ending was very clever and went to show that within us all, even the best of us (Investigative Detective Mill), lurks a little bit of evil. Overall, I'd say I really enjoyed watching the film and believe not only is it entertaining, it is also educational.
DeleteI thought David Fincher did a great job at depicting urban life in New York City. I especially enjoyed the gritty atmosphere which surrounded detective Mills and Somerset. The thrill and intensity of this film was unbelievably well done, and the ending caught me off guard when I first watched it. Although he took it to extremes, I thought John Doe had valid points when he stated that people are numbed by the sinful world we live in. Overall, I believe the 7 sins are only a guideline of what not to do, and shouldn't be forced upon people like how John Doe did.
ReplyDeleteIn response to prompt 4, I believe that there is definitely a hierarchy of sins. While some things that people do are wrong, there are definitely levels to immorality. For example, stealing is much worse than making fun of someone. However, the motive that people have in both of these scenarios is the same; they are judged based on how much they affect other people. In society, all of these different sins have varied levels of consequences due to how effective they are.
ReplyDeleteThere can never really be "a worst sin" committed. This is because everyone who commits a sin sets out to do something bad. As a result, the worst sin that a person can commit is to betray the way they were taught to do things, and to stray away from morality.
I agree, a hierarchy of sin would be based on the intent of the person who committed it, how malicious their deeds were. But I don't think certain crimes are necessarily more horrible than others in that sense. For example, stealing from someone is worse than lying about someone to tease them. But deliberately falsely accusing someone of being say a murderer or rapist is leagues worse than stealing, despite it also falling into the category of lying. You can destroy lives by pulling that kind of stuff. But yes, stuff regarding the consequences of the individual sin works very well.
DeleteI also agree that there is no such thing as a worst sin. A lot of people say that murder is generally the ultimate crime, but there's a reason the phrase "a fate worse than death" exists. There's actually a quote from a thing I read just yesterday that I thought also suited this sentiment; "They snatched me from Death. His cousins are far more terrible. "
I am fascinated by your idea of the nonexistence of a "worst sin." To me, your idea characterizes sin as a bottomless pit, each wrongdoing or diversion from morality making the sinner fall deeper and deeper into the hole and lose touch with their humanity. The fact that they never hit the bottom however, seems to represent redemption--the idea that no matter how far someone diverges from their path, they will never fully lose their humanity, as there is always a way to return to the road.
DeleteI believe that hell exists, and is full of pain and suffering. It's a burning place with fire and darkness, not a place where anyone would like to go. People have different beliefs, and some people feel that hell doesn't exist. It's definitely easier to believe that hell doesn't exist, and perhaps that there isn't an afterlife at all, because then actions only will take effects that we know of. However, based on what I've learned and gone through, I believe that hell is real and that's the truth.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with you. I also believe that hell exists as well. It is interesting that John Doe tried to "turn back their sins" even though there was a hell already. Obviously he was knowledgeable about it so it makes me wonder why he still did those crimes.
DeleteI agree with both you as well! I believe hell is a real place, a place of fire and torment. Doe's ideas about making people pay for their sins seemed a bit extreme, but I think he wanted to show people a glimpse of what Hell would really be like in the future for those people.
DeleteThe concept of 'sin' is fundamentally a very abstract one, as it is based in the equally abstract morals and ethics of any particular human being or community. Who's to say what is truly right and truly wrong? No one, that's who, because even that concept is something made up by humans. Which isn't to say that things considered wrong by society (i.e. theft, murder, etc) aren't wrong; they definitely are, but only in context of human society. Which is, again, something completely made up by humans in the first place.
ReplyDeleteAnyway the point being, what counts as a 'sin,' what's right and what's wrong, is going to differ depending on who you ask. An average person will probably say various criminal activities. A particularly religious person might include a whole list of small things that other people wouldn't normally consider but go against various tenants of their faith. Some people simply wouldn't care at all, citing that whatever happens happens, that's life. An abstract concept is gonna have a lot of different interpretations, depending on the individual, the community, the period of time, the context, and so on and so forth.
I also feel like right/wrong is sort of different from sin. The very term 'sin' has a religious background (abstract human religion!), so it sort of implies like something that is against the fundamental rules of God and the universe and whatever. Which isn't something that sits very well with me. So I prefer just like figuring if something is right/wrong than figuring if something is a sin. The concept of sin is mostly a thing that only applies in a religious context.
I haven't watched the movie previously nor read the book, but I had mixed reactions from the film, Seven. I thought that the movie itself was very disturbing along with its theme and events. I also had thought that the murders were very gruesome and that these murders were done in a way where it correlates to the seven deadly sins which are addressed in the Christian bible. I believe the reason why the murderer decided to murder the individuals who were committing these sins is because he was doing it in the name of God. In other words, he believed that these people who are committing these sins for whatever means, had to be punished for their wrongdoings and suffer the consequence in the underworld(hell). The murderer wanted to get attention from his actions from society and fulfill the Lord's work. He wanted everyone to understand that society is full of these atrocities that needs to be addressed, but he is doing this my leaving messages to the detectives after each murder writing each sin down. I felt that one of the detectives was very impatient and restless with the whole case, but the other one was more patient and the who is trying to fit the puzzles together. Above all, both the detectives were curious and eager to know the true reason behind this serial killer, but at the very end, they understood the true meaning of his actions.
ReplyDeleteI found the film to be a very enthralling drama. From one plot point to the next, the movie had a very gripping plot with character depth that was masterfully displayed by the actors. Morgan Freeman, Brad Pitt, and Kevin Spacey embodied the characters of the calm mediator, the hot-head detective, and the calculated maniac respectively very well. The different ways the sinners were murdered by John Doe did a good job of showing how he turned the sins against them. The "lesson" Doe was trying to give was understood through these murders. I felt that the movie did a good job of not being taken under the control of the visual scenes. The effects were not as powerful as the dramatization, and this really made the movie all the better. I also felt like the movie did a really good job of showing the specific relation to Dante and the Inferno. This made the references very clear, and it also gave references for many of the plot points. The idea of the calm and collected man, John Doe, giving a sermon to the world was first viewed as an act of insanity as that was comforting, but in the end it was very clear that there was something far greater at play. Seeing the detectives trying to solve the befuddling mystery of John Doe’s lesson made this entertaining and thrilling.
ReplyDeleteHello Biswadeep,
DeleteI strongly agree with the fact that you think the movie had a gripping plot controlled by the actors. I was very pleased with the acting in this film myself. The story-line was also superb, leaving me interested throughout the whole movie.
The film was outstanding. Though, I believe the genre is more reflective of that of a thriller movie in opposition to a horror movie. The director wastes no time warming his audience up before the gore appears. Right off the bat, we are faced with the crime scene of “Gluttony”. A disgustingly obese man is found dead, tied to his dining room table, with a pound of his flesh missing, cause of death: over consumption which led to internal eruption. As the story advances and moves toward climax, the murders continue in the hair raising pattern of the infamous seven sins. Accompanying the advancements of the homicides, are the advancements of the details in the personal lives of our protagonists: the two detectives. In the end, the two elements are intertwined in a clever plot twist that lands one of the good-meaning detectives (Brad Pitt) in the position of Murderer John Doe. What happens is John Doe kills the detective’s wife out of envy, which then leads to his own wrath and the 7 sins are complete. I thought the movie was a perfect compromise between suspense, action, drama, and ultimately an insight into the dark concepts of Dante’s Inferno.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Megan. The movie was a very interesting film to watch. When Ms. Ene said that the film would be very scary, I thought it was one of those horror kind of films; however, this film was different. It showed a different kind of scary, a thriller. I was also amazed at the murderer's thinking at the end when he planned for one of the detectives to kill him, fulfilling the last sin: vengeance. This can give us great information about the seven deadly sins in Dante's Inferno.
Delete2) I enjoyed the movie very much. Although the film comes under the genre of horror, I don't see it like that. I really enjoyed how Mills embodies the final sin, Wrath, and Doe was Envy. I found the film to be very symbolic of everyday life. In the end, when Somerset, Mills and Doe are riding to the final destination, Doe says,”Only in a world this s***** could you even try to say these were innocent people and keep a straight face. But that’s the point. We see a deadly sin on every street corner, in every home, and we tolerate it. We tolerate it because it’s commonplace. It’s trivial.” Although I don't want to agree with Doe's words about humanity, there is truth in them. There is so much sin in the world, especially the seven deadly sins, that since it’s become so common, no one thinks twice about them. I liked the way the movie portrays the truth in the world. The way each sin was embodied by sinners was well done because the sin was not committed once, it was a prolonged action that almost rationalizes Doe’s reasons for killing them. Overall, the movie was unforgettable and I am excited to see how it connects with Dante’s Inferno.
ReplyDeleteTo answer prompt 4, the hierarchy of sin is existent, but the levels of sin in the hierarchy may differ from person to person. To most people, being lazy or stealing from another person is a smaller "sin" than murdering someone. Small sins like stealing or sloth is universally at a lesser degree than murder in almost everyone's hierarchy of sin. However, there are times where the hierarchy is different for some people. The use of drugs is an example of this, as some people may see the use of a drug like marijuana as harmless, some see it as a small sin, while others see it as a major sin. Therefore, something like drug use may be low on the hierarchy from some, while drug use may be high on the hierarchy for others. Sex, abortion, and other controversial topics are likely to be on varying levels in one's hierarchy based on its controversial nature, so it may be high or low. The hierarchy of sin is all dependent on how a person was raised and what they believe, so hierarchies are bound to differ or even are nonexistent. For the absolute worst sin a person could possibly commit, murder would have to take the top spot. Taking away a person's life is the worst possible action someone could do, as it theoretically takes everything away from a person. Stealing and performing many actions can be undone or the victim can move on from, but taking away a person's life cannot be undone.
ReplyDeleteMy definition of sin is an act that can be harmful to yourself as well as the people around you. Sins come in a wide spectrum for intensities. Murder, for example is a far worse sin than stealing food. Religion also plays a big role in determining what really is a sin. Some religions do not accept the customs that other religions do, which can be seen as a sin. All in all, most sins are considered punishable in all religions but some sins are specific to each religion.
ReplyDeleteWhile watching the movie, it was very interesting to see the mind of the killer, John Doe; however, I also thought the movie was horrifying. I was surprised that he had the idea to turn himself in and make the Mills be the murderer of John. John made Mills become the final sin, vengeance. In the end, I was sad that the killer killed Mill’s wife because she was not only innocent, but also pregnant with Mill’s baby. Throughout the movie, John’s actions show a lot of sin. Sin means to do something that is against the government/God. It can result in severe consequences. Like John, he was sent to jail and was shot by Mills. In my opinion, I dislike the actions of John because I believe that the worst sin an individual can commit is murdering innocent people. It is not right to kill anyone at all without the reason to do so. Overall, I thought the movie was well thought out and has a very interesting plot that can make their audience intrigued.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with you that John killed innocent people without a good reason. John Doe's mindset was twisted to the point where he would murder innocent people like Mill's wife, just to achieve the punishment of the last sin. But all in all, I also agree that the movie had an interesting plot that kept its audience thinking the whole time.
DeleteI think that “sin” means any action that would be considered immoral. Actions may or may not be sins for different people, depending on their moral values or religion. Someone religious or having strong morals may feel guily for committing a sin, which someone less moral would not even consider a sin. Religious people may also believe in punishment for sins. For me a sin would be inflicting pain on other people who don’t deserve it, such as stealing, lying, or physically or verbally hurting someone. Actions that would hurt myself wouldn’t be sins because I can control whatever I do to myself, so I would think about the consequences of any action that affects me before I do them.
ReplyDeleteWouldn't anything that hurts yourself also hurt people who care about you? Not to discredit your own importance, but if you commit suicide isn't it "extra" immoral and hurtful in consideration of the fact that your family members and relatives will be adversely affected? In fact, you could ruin people's lives by ruining your own, making them turn to sinful vices to cover up their grief about your situation.
DeleteIn my opinion, a sin is something that is illegal or perhaps something that hurts someone else. The dictionary says that it is "an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law". It is quite interesting that in the movie, the killer himself as well as one of the detectives end up as one of the 7 deadly sins. This maybe just shows how easily one can sin, but the short temper of Detective Mills foreshadows the wrath he feels because of John Doe's envy.
ReplyDeleteThe film was not as scary as I thought it would be; I was expecting gore and jump scares but there were almost nothing like those. It was instead, more of a psychological horror. The way John Doe murdered his victims and his mindset throughout the whole crime were very disturbing. However, his reasonings behind his actions were intriguing to listen to, mainly because I thought they were ridiculous and insane. Everyone had their own flaws and mistakes, and I felt that he was taking things too far, especially with the gluttony case. I think the most disturbing part was the plot twist at the end when he caused Mills to kill him. I honestly don't even know anymore I was very disturbed by the movie.
ReplyDeleteThere definitely is a hierarchy of sin; committing murder is definitely worse than stealing a loaf of bread. I think murder is a pretty terrible sin to commit because it is wrong for a person to take another person’s life for any reason. Should a person deserve to be murdered, the judicial system exists to fairly judge his/her actions. But the physical act of murder isn’t the worst possible sin to commit. In my opinion, the worst type of sin is the thought process behind a heinous act. In the movie Seven, I find John Doe more despicable for his thought process behind his murders than the actual killings he has committed; the thoughts he has are completely abhorrent.
ReplyDeleteTo answer prompt 3, while the definition of a sin artificially makes sense, the definition for what qualifies as a sin is rather arbitrary and dependent on cultural preferences. While some would consider abortion or sex a sin, others may not. In addition, sin must be viewed from the standpoint of an agent, one who may not understand his or her own consequences. Should they be responsible for sin if they did not know the consequences? In different religions, these beliefs can also be seen to be extremely different and thus subjective.
ReplyDeleteAnother discussion over sin would be over the consequences. While certain religions may argue that sin can be forgiven and redeemed, others argue that it taints our soul and makes us forever evil. Weighing between sins, such as the sin of being greedy versus the sin of killing someone or stealing from someone is probably very different in their evaluation.
Sin is also not merely black or white, as a binary, but is instead very strange on how you can commit sins to violate other people. Ripstein argues that you can hinder hinderances, meaning you can violate certain rights in order to further extend freedom for most people.
During the entire film I was on the edge of my seat immersed in each scene and often holding my breathe but at the end I was simply annoyed. This was my reaction as I was annoyed with how John didn't get caught and how Mills gave into John's plot shooting him and completing his work. I was mainly annoyed by the fact that John was taken out in a single shot rather than being tortured by Mills. All in all loved the movie just wished Mills made John regret his decision.
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