Inferno and Seven
Choose any one of the following prompts, or feel free to create your own prompt.:
1. If you watched the movie, how do you suppose Seven is related to The Inferno by Dante. Include any parallels in relation to sin, theme, character biblical allusions and/or any reactions you have to the film and poem. I'm interested in hearing your thoughts, so if you venture off topic, feel free to do so.
2. Write your reactions to the film
3. Define "sin" what do you suppose the word means?
4. Hell and Sin. Is there a hierarchy of sin? What is the very worst sin an individual can commit?
5. Is there such thing as a place called Hell? If so, what does it look like? If not, why not? Why do some people believe in Hell and others do not?
the movie was super cool and how john doe had us guessing on where and who the other 2 dead bodies were only to find out it was it was mills wife and himself was brazy
ReplyDeleteI sort of disagree, because this movie is kind of horrifying, for the dead bodies seem scary, but I do agree the bodys were Mill and his wife. The only cool thing about the movie was that it shows symbolism of good and evil and how it has changed throughout the film.
Deleteim happy they didnt show the head
ReplyDeleteMe too it would've stayed head for days.
DeleteWhile both Seven and The Inferno are about sin, from what I know this is about where the similarities end. I will say though, that since I first watched Seven, I have held a personal theory that Kevin Spacey plays the same person as Keyser Soze in The Usual Suspects. In both movies, he not only plays a clever, sadistic serial killer, but he also has a limp in both movies. I don't see this as a coincidence.
ReplyDeletekind of ironic he wanted to punish people for their sins when he was the one MURDERING them to begin with. the way he walked into the police station turning himself in was something i didnt see coming
ReplyDeleteIt wasn't ironic because he was a sinner himself and chose to be killed
DeleteYeah I found it quite surprising that he knew that he was a sinner himself and chose to get himself killed
DeleteI think sin is defined differently by each individual depending on their own morals and standards of living. What one may see as immoral, may not be to another. In the same way, what someone may see as a minor fault could be a huge sin to someone else.
ReplyDeleteThe definition of sin is ¨an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law¨. Therefore, it is only considered a sin when it´s breaking one of those laws. Generally speaking, a sin is categorized by what law it breaks. The greater the importance of the law, the worse the sin may be.
DeleteI don't believe that there is a place like hell because I don't believe in an afterlife. I think that when we die, we die. People always imagine hell as being red and fiery and I think that's due to one person's interpretation which is still being followed. I think that people believe in Hell because others told them there is such a place like Hell so they mind their actions. If people realized that there is no Hell they would realize there are no consequences for their actions.
ReplyDeleteyou right, if the idea of hell existing wasn't there, people would do whatever without thinking
DeleteI agree, Hell is definitely more of a belief that can help people become more moral. Without a Hell, there would be people running around doing immoral actions towards other people.
Delete1. Seven features a plot composed of elements directly taken from The Inferno, as the police deal with murders that mirror the punishments for sins described in The Inferno. The murderer progresses through a series of sins from The Inferno, such as gluttony and pride, and for each person he uses a contrapasso to kill them. This matches The Inferno, where all sinners are punished with their contrapasso, a punishment that matches the sin they committed. I found it interesting that the movie decided to directly link the plot to The Inferno through the books that the police research, instead of having it be just an allusion.
ReplyDeleteYea me too. I think we all saw it coming, but luckily we had Morgan Freedman to help point out the significance of the murders. I'm pretty sure there's a sin for killing others though so not sure what John Doe was thinking.
DeleteI agree that the movie's direct reference to its inspiration was unusual. Maybe the movie makers wanted everyone to learn more about high school literature! The movie is a pretty good real-life "adaption" of the book.
Delete1. I think Seven is related to The Inferno because the different types of sins. There were 9 circles of hell in the Inferno and there were 7 sins that could be committed in Seven. There were some parallel between the two. The people who have committed the sins were punished for them. However, between the two, the punishment for the sins were different.
ReplyDeleteMany of the sins mentioned in Seven are also from The Inferno. The seven were gluttony, greed, sloth, lust, pride, envy, and wrath in chronological order. One of the relations seen in both Seven and The Inferno is that the sins seem to progress in violence and significance as they approach the end/center. In Seven, there were allusions to the Christianity and John Doe seemed to be acting God's will by punishing the sinners. This ties into Dante's inferno because sinners go to Hell to be punished. More on the film in general, I was intrigued about John Doe's thoughts of the world and his master plan. Despite him saying he was merely acting God's orders, I found it strange for him to enjoy punishing others, because that in itself makes him a sinner as well.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your analysis that both The Inferno and the Seven focus on these sins. Seven focuses on a few examples of people who portray the sin, while the Inferno takes people from history and places them to certain sinful categories. I too find it strange that John Doe enjoys punishing others. Maybe in his mind, he feels that punishing other sinners justifies his own sin.
DeleteGreat point! I'd also like to point out that John Doe admits to being a sinner (guilty of envy), so you are entirely right!
DeleteThe part where the detectives were talking to John Doe was pretty interesting. Although I don think murder is the solution to anything, Doe's perspective on the world is very intriguing.
DeleteSeven relates to Dante's inferno in the sense that both of them have biblical references on sinners and their punishments. In the Inferno, hell has different layers to where sinners go to depending on their sin and receive a punishment that correlates to their sin, similarly on how in seven the serial killer kills his victims according to their sins like how gluttony died by eating, sloth died by laying down rotting, and the killer who was envy died because he envied the detectives.
ReplyDeleteAdding on to that, the tone is dark throughout the movie. The town where they live seems like Hell because these murders are being committed and no one is able to find out who is responsible.
DeleteI find it ironic how the killer himself is a sinner himself; he himself knows that his has committed the sin of envy.
Delete4. I think that all sin is worth the same because either way, the punishment is death. Therefore, it does not matter how evere¨ the sin is, they are all in the same category of sin. Theoretically speaking, any sin committed, whether against an object, man, or God, directs itself towards God because one is basically sinning against his creation and disrespecting him the Creator. For example, if someone called your painting ¨stupid¨, then called you ¨stupid.¨ Both insults would feel equally as painful.
ReplyDeleteI do not know how Dante came up with his layers of Inferno, maybe just on his own ideas, but I would think that Hell is a place without internal boundaries. Personally, I always imagined it as a place where everyone is just clumped together, but there are of course different theories.
I agree with that because words hurt. Plus, I'm pretty sure Dante used some help from the sins and all of the characters are people in his that he hates or love. I'm not very sure but that's what I heard.
DeleteSeven is highly related to The Inferno. Most apparently, The Inferno is mentioned in the film and is one of the bases for the serial killer's, "John Doe"'s, reasoning. This brings to life Doe's notion of the contrapasso: those who gained pleasure from gluttony receive pain from eating, those who gained a living from lust receive torture through their work, and so on. In addition, the creators of "Hell" in both Seven and The Inferno received inspiration from the Bible. Death is the time when people receive punishments for their sins.
ReplyDeleteYes, however death was not the punishment for John Doe as his own death was what he wished for, representing "wrath" of the seven sins and completing his "masterpiece."
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ReplyDeleteIt’s hard to say a single definition of sin that everybody agrees on, by in my perspective, sin is an action or feeling one does or has that religion considers to be wrong or unjust. But, while whether something is a sin or not primarily depends on religion, I feel that if the overwhelming majority comes to accept the action/feeling, we will no longer consider it a sin. If being a lazy couch-potato (something some might call a sin of sloth) becomes the norm, then at that point we might no longer consider it a sin if the vast majority accept it. This example is seen today as the vast majority of people can agree that they are at times lazy. But people don’t actively criticize these people and call them sinful. Instead, we grow to deal with it, regardless if we approve of it or not. Thus, even though what qualifies as sin primarily depends on religious text, people can also change what we consider as sin.
ReplyDeleteI agree, everything has it's definition, but people can easily change that definition based on their perception of that concept. Although some actions that were not once sins might later be considered as one, I don't think certain actions (murder, stealing, etc.) will be considered less of a sin than they are now. Universally there are beliefs shared by many people that have been constant for decades.
DeleteSo you are basically saying that sin evolves with the generations, eventually detracting from the religious standard.
DeleteYet, do you think that religion should set the standard in the first place? What there were standards set by religious and secular institution? Would we still adhere to secular standards? In addition, how would the minority react?
I feel like if the standards were to constantly evolve, there would be no need for any standard in the first place, since we would be constantly breaking them. I think there should be a few that stay constant throughout time, otherwise would would not really have any moral laws by which to govern. In addition, the minority would probably not disappointed with the system and end up leaving or revolting.
Seven, or rather the antagonist of Seven, resembles an extreme version of Dante. John Doe prescribes cruel punishments to those that violate his ideologies, and the end result is a horrifying psychopath. Dante also prescribes cruel punishments to those whom he sees as sinners, showing that he is no different.
ReplyDeleteIn fact, the only thing that makes Dante's punishments "better", or less worse, is that Dante's are only imagination, that he passive-aggressively writes a book condemning specific individuals rather than seeking them out in real life.
This is an interesting comparison between Dante and the psychopath John Doe.
Delete4. There's nothing more greater than committing a sin except a person killing another person because that goes against everything. Killing someone is taking a life away and who knows that his/her life was either depressing or exciting. Either way, they didn't ask for that because mostly everybody deserves a normal life. Besides killing someone, making people suffer is probably one of the worst sins that a person can commit because people don't want to go through pain.
ReplyDeleteI agree that murder is the worst sin someone can commit. Everything about it terrible, it only causes pain not only to the person, who is killed but also for everyone who cared about that person.
DeleteSin is defined as an immoral act considered to be a transgression against the divine law. I was raised in a Christian household so I've heard this word a lot used in the context of the Bible. I've been taught that sin is an unholy act committed which contradicts the 10 commandments. My perspective of sin doesn't have as much of a dark and haunting image that a lot of people put on it. When people commit sins, usually the image of Satan or the Devil pops up, but I've been taught to imagine a disappointed God. I'm not religious myself, so I don't believe in sins, but more in mistakes. Sins are considered to be more damaging than mistakes but I think mistakes are just measured on higher and lower levels.
ReplyDeleteI mostly agree with you. I don't know if it's that I don't believe in sins, but I think my definition of "sin" is much different (and less severe?) than the traditional religious connotation.
DeleteThe movie was good I really liked the suspense, but I did not like how it ended. Mills had a choice of not killing John Doe but he decided to let him win. I wish in the movie they showed what happened after the incident to see if Mills would win in a trial.
ReplyDeleteI wish that there was more to the movie too. The ending seemed abrupt.
DeleteI agree, I think it would have been interesting to see the aftermath of what happened.
DeleteI agree, I wish they expanded more on the story of Mills and what happened after. However, I understand why they didn't because they showed him being consumed by the sin of Vengeance or Wrath thus showing all of the Seven deadly sins.
DeleteI agree. The actions in the movie continues to build up suspense, leading to an ending scene that no one could have predicted in the middle in the movie. It was only when the two detectives and Doe was in the middle on nowhere when people figured out what will happen. I wish the movie showed Mill's trial as well, because I do want to see what happens to him.
DeleteI thought it was cool to see all the little details that went into the film. For example, John Doe wears red in the final scenes, suggesting more violence/blood. There were also a lot of "aha" moments when I realized that a particular scene foreshadowed another one later, notably when Mills speaks of not being at home enough and John Doe killing Mills' wife.
ReplyDeleteI found the movie to be very focused on details as well, and that's what I loved about it. Also, the foreshadowed moments played a crucial role in the storyline.
DeleteSeven parallels The Inferno in the sins the victims have committed and how they are killed. The deaths are ironic in their sin similar to how contrapassos reflect upon the sins the sinners have committed. For example, Gluttony eats to death and Sloth dies from being bound onto a bed for a year. In a way, Mills and Somerset can be seen as Dante and Virgil. Mills just moved to the city and has no clue what kind of hell the crime rate is there. Somerset, an experienced detective and citizen of the city, shows and guides Mills how corrupted the people are; Somerset guides Mills like how Virgil guides Dante.
ReplyDeleteI agree that they method of death correlates to contrapassos in the inferno. I also never thought about how the detective were like Dante and Virgil that comparison blew my mind.
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ReplyDelete1. Seven is related to Dante's Inferno but does not go in depth in discussing the topic of Hell and what it is like. The movie portrays the town to feel like Hell as these vicious crimes are being committed and no one is able to find the person behind them. The tone of the movie remains dark and this is very similar to Dante's Inferno. Seven also shows some of the sins such as glutton, lust and greed which are also mentioned in Dante's Inferno. The murderer, in the movie, is trying to prove how these sins are being committed around us but we fail to recognize them in our society. It is like the murderer is taking revenge as he says that he was "chosen" to do this. He is not even afraid to die in the end as he believes his mission is important than his life and the lives of the people he killed. I think the movie wants to show how different we are and how we react to things differently. For example Mills' is completely an opposite of Somerset. Somerset remains calm but Mills reacts according to his emotions. This makes him vulnerable and as a result the murderer uses him to complete his mission.
ReplyDeleteWell said. However, the man was considered a psychopath due to taking joy in watching others suffer, so I wouldn't really classify him as "different." Somerset and Mills, though, are completely different.
DeleteI thinks killer might not want to be "Chosen". At the end, he classifies himself as envy. He says he envied Mills' peaceful life and lovable wife. It can be translated as that killer also wanted to have normal life just like other people. However, he was "Chosen", so he envied Mills and decided to make him last victim.
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ReplyDeleteThe movie really drawn me in and kept me interested. The end of the movie however really surprised me. John Doe was very sadistic and smart and the whole time I had the sensation they were just doing whatever he wanted and they had no control on the situation. That is something refreshing to see in a movie because the good guys did not even have a chance. Another thing was how unsatisfying Doe's death was. It was of course intended to be but while watching it I felt his hopelessness because nothing he could do could bring his wife back. Doe was intelligent and was hinting at how he envied Brad Pitt and that there would be two bodies because he knew with his temper, he would definitely shoot him. I also wished they show the head cause that would have been insane to let the audience see it.
ReplyDeleteSomething interesting I got from the movie was that John Doe was only sadistic in the sense that he enjoyed the pain he caused the sinners, like that it was what they deserved. Also I thought he did bring them to two dead bodies which were the baby and Mill's wife, but created the third with himself
DeleteI get completely agree with how the good guys had no chance. I think they even knew that to some extent. I also had a feeling the wife would be killed simply because her presence in the movie would have been absolutely pointless without her death. Definitely a lot of hopelessness throughout.
DeleteA sin is any immoral action committed by an individual. While the intensity of a sin can range anywhere from telling a simple lie to committing a murder, an appropriate punishment is expected. The sins mentioned in The Inferno and in Seven are almost unavoidable in life. For example, envy is one of the seven deadly sins. Envy is an emotion rather than an action and is difficult to control. Envy is more of an internal conflict within an individual and is therefore ranked lower than other sins. The worst sin an individual can possibly commit is obviously murder. They have essentially removed the existence of another person from the world and that qualifies to receive the harshest punishment possible. Based on this logic, the cruelest sins which affect other individuals the most receive the greatest punishment and the sins which affect other individuals the least receive the lightest punishment.
ReplyDeleteAgreed, the worst sin should be the one that violates the most basic right of human beings, and crueler sins deserves crueler punishment.
DeleteFor the second prompt, my reaction to the film Seven is that even though it is very dark, it does show many important social problems. John Doe's quote "Innocent? Is that supposed to be funny...murderers and rapists on the street" shows that even though many acts today are legal, they are still contributing to the moral breakdown of the society. It is evident that Detective Somerset sees the same thing as John, as Somerset is tired of the city and is willing to retire as soon as possible. However, the two characters take very different approaches to the social problems, Somerset chooses to try to escape from it, but John Doe thinks that in order to make the people to be aware of these problems, "you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore. You have to hit them with a sledgehammer, and then you'll notice you've got their strict attention." Both approaches are not good solutions to the problems, the Somerset solution would only let the problems go on, while the John Doe solution is an extremist one that disregards the basic rights of others, which also makes him a sinner of "envy," the opposite of "tolerance." The only way to really solve the problems is to act on them incrementally in a neutral way, as all the sins themselves actually all have positive roots, and going to any extreme would only lead to more sins.
ReplyDeleteIn The Inferno by Dante, the sinners that Dante encountered are punished for the most guilty sin they have committed. Similarly, in the movie Seven, John Doe killed the people that he felt were the most guilty of committing one of the seven deadly sins. I thought that some parts of the movie were left for interpretation, as John Doe killed one person per sin, and I guess this was to make a point. But, in The Inferno we see that there are multiple sinners being punished for each of the seven sins. Also, I think having a little back story on John Doe’s life would have created a better storyline, as it seemed like John Doe started killing people without a timeline, but overall I liked the movie.
ReplyDeleteI feel that the directors portrayal and allusions to the Inferno were very cleverly disguised which is what allowed them to portray the sins in an interesting way!
DeleteI like how you compared the punishment types of the two. I think the idea of having John Doe's life in the movie because it would have increased the suspense as well as created a better story line, especially if it occurred in flashes.
Delete4. I'd agree with Dante that the worst sin is betrayal of benefactor. Indeed, killing someone can be argued for just as great of a sin. Taking another person's life not only affects the victim, but also everyone related. Relatives, family members, close friends, etc. would all be incredibly devastated. Betraying a benefactor, similarly, is almost like "killing" the helper since the betrayer had been assisted with good intentions, but returns the opposite. Large amounts of emotions were most likely invested into care, but to receive nothing in return and possibly even worse, is very sad.
ReplyDeleteI agree. Through one person, many people were influenced and died. I think it is implying that is devastating to live in this world.
DeleteI agree that taking another person's life affects man people. Relatives and friends are affected by their loved ones who died. Betraying a benefactor is also a sin, but I think it is not as serious as ending someone's life.
DeleteI loved this movie more than any movie I have watched over my years in high school. Although the whole movie itself was riveting, I found the part at the end where the wife's head in the box the most surprising, but distasteful. That particular instance truly shows the severity of the insanity that John Doe endured on a daily basis. Furthermore, the constant action scenes captivated me, as I keenly watched John Doe escape the grip of the detectives multiple times. The funniest part of the movie was when they realized that the photographer who they had shunned was actually John, and that they could have killed him right there and put an end to his killings.
ReplyDeleteWhile the "photographer" scene itself was funny to watch initially, it would have possibly made things worse if they had randomly killed a photographer with no evidence or anything. Also the question of whether or not he had more captives hidden away could have made things worse.
DeletePrompt #3: Define sin:
ReplyDeleteTraditionally, "sin" is defined as acts against religious or divine law. But in modern society, with the separation of church and state, "sin" is a less definitive word, as people today have a higher tolerance for what would be considered sinning. For example, Hester Prynne spend time in prison for committing adultery in The Scarlet Letter, but that wouldn't happen today. A lot of times, society now focuses on legal transgressions, rather than moral transgressions.
People now have more liberty to define "sin" on their own terms. This makes this idea of "sinning" less clear, of course, and consequently, taken less seriously than it was a few hundred years ago. While most people still consider acts of violence, betrayal, and deceit "sins," morals have definitely shifted over the years--a Puritan person might consider all people alive today sinners, but we might not. We might, however, be able to associate the violent, hateful, and hedonistic tendencies of modern America with the redefinition (and increasing irrelevance) of the word "sin."
Seven is related to Dante's Inferno, because of how these sins are portrayed. In the movie the "sinners" died horribly because of how they brought wrong into the right of the world. In the Inferno, Dante helps the readers see all the vivid imagery that he uses to portray the suffering and deaths of the sinners. In the movie Seven, John Doe, the main villain, did gruesome things to people in order to set an example of what happens when people sin. In these graphic deaths of the sinners these two stories tell the same tale.
ReplyDeleteWell said, the imagery you get from both Seven and Dante's Inferno however, I wouldn't necessarily say they were the same tale but they were similar is some ways.
DeletePrompt 4: Hell and Sin. Is there a hierarchy of sin? What is the very worst sin an individual can commit?
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, there is somewhat of a hierarchy of sin because someone who kills 17 people should be punished more than someone who has committed adultery. One of the worst sins one can do is to do anything sexual or violent towards innocent children or even worse, babies. The reasoning behind this is children are still new to the world and shouldn't be abused in any way. Abuse can be traumatic and may send the message of it being a normal thing towards the child which can set off a chain reaction that may have the initial child to abuse his/her child. Either way, this is the worst sin anyone can do in my opinion.
I agree, that is one of the most horrible things a person can do. The hierarchy of sin also does make sense because of how there are different levels and severity of sins.
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ReplyDelete2. I felt that the movie was captivating. Though the plot itself may not seem like much, since it is just about a serial killer performing the 7 sins out in real life, the amount of action and suspense in each scene keeps the viewer hooked on. The director makes sure that each scene, no matter how small the detail, hints towards what is about to happen. An example of this is the clothes that John Doe wears when he turned himself in. Instead of the regular orange prisoner clothes, he is clothed in red, representing bloodshed. Small details like that add to the suspense and action of each scene. The movie also made me realize how much of the 7 sins are in our daily lives, and that we just do not realize it as a sin since we are so used to seeing them.
ReplyDeleteI agree! I thought the movie was captivating and it was difficult to take my eyes off from every scene. I also thought that the small details really showed the director's artistic ability and it was amazing to be able to recognize them.
DeleteI too felt that the subtle details really added to the overall experience of the movie. The simplicity of the story gave the movie more creative freedom, able to go in the direction the director intended.
DeleteAlthough I did not watch the movie, I feel that this level of detail and awareness is very good! I will look out for the 7 sins in my own life and be on the watch as well.
Delete1.The movie had an unsatisfying ending/result. John Doe's intention was to die from the wrath of Detective Mills. And knowing that, Mills could not refrain his emotions from the death of his wife and baby, which he didn't know about. The symbols represented in the movie foreshadowed deaths and finding those symbols while watching the movie made me feel like I was actually understanding and analyzing the movie. This movie was great because it helped me learn more about the seven deadly sins, how to analyze movies, and build my observation skills. Although this was a movie, this relates to present day. People going through deaths and witnessing tragic moments were what reminded me what people in this world are facing right now.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree that it didn't have a satisfying ending. It horrified me that justice was not brought to the criminal. In the end, he got what he wanted. This movie was an emotional roller coaster.
DeleteSame, this is pretty relatable to a lot of unfortunate events today. In the same ways, these people are reacting because they're sinners, per John Doe's definition.
DeleteI completely agree that the ending of the movie was very unsatisfying; John Doe never faced true justice and everything kind of panned out how he wanted it too, while Mills ultimately is left to be the one who faces the repercussions of John Doe's actions. I was also left mortified by Tracy Mill's fate and what she went through.
DeleteI agree with the ending being unfulfilling ending. I wish the ending had gone in favor of the protagonists rather than the killer. But I also think part of it touches on human emotion because sometimes our emotion overpowers our reasonable thinking which in the end favors 'evil' rather than 'good'.
Delete2. Write your reactions to the film
ReplyDeleteFor me Seven is my first suspense movie that made me to have many thoughts after watching it. It was impressive punishments that John Doe punished sinners. The punishments are definitely related to the victims' sins. The ending was realistic and sad at same time. The detective who supposed to be a justice became sin called wrath at last. I was so impressed about the John Doe's plans to show evil in Mills was radical, but was brilliant too.
I agree that the ending was very realistic, and I think that was what the director intended. I think the ending was like that to make us think about our ability to control ourselves. For example, Doe killed people because his obsession over "sin" made him go crazy. Similarly, Mills committed murder because he was manipulated by Doe.
DeletePrompt #4:
ReplyDeleteI believe that to my knowledge, nowhere in the bible is there a hierarchy of sin. In my opinion, all types of sin are equal, but the severity and/or repercussions are what can truly make them worse than others. For example, I believe that there are levels of severity in each type of sin like killing one person or multiple people, but that distinction of how many people the sin affects is what makes it worse. All sins affect others in some way. For example each sin can; sloth by inaction, greed by taking from others, lust by heartbreak and more. Also each of these sins can lead to others as well. In summary I believe the worst sin an individual can commit is not just one type of sin, but something that affects countless others negatively as well.
In my definition, sin is when you know you are doing something wrong. Once, twice, forever... it is still sin to me. For example if a person is a bully, and he/she knows that they are a bully and continues to bully, I believe that is a sin. It's not like when you make a mistake without knowing and someone tells you, or you accidentally do the wrong actions but later feel guilty about it. If something like that happens, where you feel guilty for the wrong action, I believe that it is just a mistake that you will never do again. But if you purposely do the wrong actions, you know about it, and you don't feel guilty about it, I believe that that is sin.
ReplyDelete2. Overall, I was pleased with the movie. It maintained strong suspense from the very beginning until the last minutes of the movie. From the cinematography to the plot itself, the movie maintained the horror of the serial killer, keeping us viewers on the edge of our seats as we anxiously anticipated the next gruesome crime scene. And each crime scene represented each of the seven deadly sins, which I found very interesting. For me, it was interesting to see how an individual perceived the sins within others and how he supposedly “helped God” by getting rid of these people through his homicides. We are able to see things from John Doe’s perspective as the “repenter of sins” at the very end of the movie, which is something I both found interesting and surprising. Typically in movies like Seven, the villain’s perspective isn’t revealed and typically commits his/her crimes with bad intent. However in Doe’s case, his perspective is revealed and we can see how he think he’s doing this for the better of society and its future.
ReplyDeleteWhile Seven was a gruesome and horrific movie, the intricate plot design and crimes of John Doe were significant in bringing to attention the reality of sin and the definition of innocence. On the surface, the movie itself was detailed and grasped my attention, but it brought forth deeper thoughts of sin. John Doe was meant to be the ultimate villain and thought to be insane, but in his extreme aspect of righteousness, what he desired to preach led me to think about how he really was. Yes, he was wrong in making judgements of other himself, which is against the Bible, but the reason for his acts were justified enough. At the end of the film, even though John Doe died, his death by Detective Mills meant the completion of his masterpiece, thus the movie as a whole had no happy ending. While others thought of John Doe as insane simply because it would be easier to label him insane than to realize someone like us out there has the willpower and desire to murder others in want of justification, I believe an important aspect of the film is that John Doe is not insane. He did this out of his desire and therefore, what he preached should not be taken lightly. John Doe's killings brought sympathy to the viewers, but upon further thought, it leads to the questioning of whether the victims were really victims of John Doe or victims of their own sins.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you and I too believe that John Doe isn't the insane criminal as perceived. After all, he's done his research about sinning and carefully/meticulously planned out his masterpiece. He had already planned out everything from the very start until his death, and everything worked out the way he expected to.
DeleteI agree with your view on John Doe. I think that he is an extremely intriguing character. I agree that his views are worth noting. Although murdering people is not okay, his reasons are convincing enough to make it seem as if it actually is okay for him to kill people. It was interesting how he said that everyone is a sinner, but no one realizes because of that exact reason.
DeletePrompt #2: Define "sin" what do you suppose the word means?
ReplyDeleteAccording to online sources, sin is "an immoral act considered to be a transgression against divine law," but we can see through the film that sin is a subjective act. According to John Doe, sins were unforgivable and common in the world we live in today. There are many people who live by greed and lust and Doe considered their actions to be unforgivable acts that defy not only divine law but society and the members of it. For me personally, I believe that everyone sins as no one is perfect, so I would define sins as human mistakes, mistakes that should be pardoned and avoided in the future. People such as the man who demonstrated gluttony may have made mistakes in the past, but through support and forgiveness, I think they could overcome their sins and learn from them. According to Catholicism, priests given the power can forgive women and men who have committed sin, so that shows that sins are not all extreme; they can be small acts that may fall under the seven sins, such as lust or wrath. People sinning today is more often associated with legal transgressions than immoral acts, but I still think that growth from sins is more important than condemning sinners for what they have done which explains why there are ways for people to learn from their mistakes (i.e. rehabilitation centers).
Yes I agree :) Because none of us are perfect, we should be given the chance to redeem ourselves and fix our mistakes. Condemnation is not the answer!!!
DeleteI had a somewhat strange reaction to the film; although I am uncomfortable with gore, the plot and thrill made me want to keep watching. The ending scene was a bit much to handle, but I feel that by then, we, the audience, were numbed to all the sins committed. Also, I feel like the definition of the word sin can be a little subjective. I'm not sure if sin in this movie referred to a moral or a legal standpoint. That's why I think crime is more dangerous today, because we only look at the legal standpoint and not necessarily the moral standpoint. I was shocked by the ending, that justice was not brought to John Doe in the proper way. The movie was especially good because it took a completely unexpected turn when Detective Mills was manipulated into anger by John Doe, and made him kill him. This made Mills the last sinner, which sent chills down my spine.
ReplyDeleteI agree with how we don't see sins as that big of a deal anymore. We have become numbed by the bigger sins in the world, such as terrorism. Over time, we have begun to ignore common sins that we see in our daily lives. We now only see the legal side of things, but ignore the ethical side.
DeleteI had a similar reaction to the film, where I ended up being numb to the gore, but the manipulation at the end really stuck with me.
DeletePrompt 3. Define "sin" what do you suppose the word means?
ReplyDeleteIn short, sin is an act or a thought that goes against the teachings of the Bible. In Christianity, sin is perceived as naturally-wicked human nature, caused by the fall of Adam and Eve, but there is still room for redemption because of Jesus. Basically, we can't help sinning, so in a Christian community, fellow believers understand and work to rid sin together. However, living in a culture where Christianity is less practiced, a sin can be defined by an atheist as something that goes against the norm, unconventional, frowned-upon, or even "weird." In contrast, the consequence you face as an atheist may be social embarrassment/scorn as opposed to consequences from God.
I agree that sins are subjective and I never thought about sins as going against the norm, but I can see how that is true.
DeleteI think "sin" is just one's personal idea of what is bad. People of different cultures have different definitions of what is good and what is bad. Committing a sin is akin to breaking a law, in a religious sense. However, the law and religion don't always overlap. This is evident when Mills accuses Doe of killing innocent people, but Doe remarks that those people were not innocent. A fat guy who eats too much, a prostitute who sells her body to make ends meet, and a model obsessed with her looks are far from innocent in John Doe's eyes. But in the end, a sin is just another opinion, an idea that some people choose to agree upon.
ReplyDeleteThe movie was pretty intriguing because of the darkness throughout the entire film. My knowledge of the seven sins allowed for me to pay more attention to certain aspects of the film. Also, knowing the seven sins made me anticipate the next murder case. The ending was both expected and clever. John Doe taunting Mills made it easy to predict that Mills would represent wrath. After realizing that Mills would represent wrath, I hoped that he wouldn't kill John Doe because like Detective Somerset said, killing John would be losing. However, like the rest of the movie, the darkness remains, and it only makes sense for Mills to kill John Doe. Even though Mills lost to John Doe, I think that the film wouldn't have been complete if we didn't see the seven deadly sins. Looking from John Doe's perspective, it's interesting how he perceives the world. He makes it seem as if everyone is a sinner, but it doesn't seem like it to society because of that exact reason.
ReplyDeleteI totally agree with not wanting Mills to kill John Doe! I think it did make sense in tying the last of the murders to John Doe's entire intricate scheme in acting out punishments for the sins though, so the completion could give a sense of closure to it all. I think the sins make an appearance in society readily and people don't necessarily perceive them as sins, or at least punishable ones. That John Doe really believed that his actions were a God-given task was interesting, and more so that he took pleasure in doing it.
DeleteSin is formally a transgression against the divine, and higher powers in general. Even if the act is tame, if God deems it to be blasphemous, then the act would be considered a sin. In the case of John Doe, He believes the 7 deadly sins to be the ones that God deems a sin when in excess, where ironic justice is the perfect way to show the error in the act. Of course in a court of law, these emotions have little bearing besides finding a motivation for a crime, so even if it is what a religion deems a sin, it is physically up to authorities and others to punish or deem tame. The term is really just meant to deter people from living in excess of any specific path, sort of like a guideline for life that can't be enforced. In modern times, the word is replaced with "crime," showing a separation of church and state, but also to provide a tangible obstacle for acts against the government (higher power). Presently, the term no longer has any real significance past it's literary and religious influence, plus it's evolved "crime" state.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your thoughts on sin. Sin is a very grey line on what is sin and what is not, and is more of a guideline more than anything on how we should proceed in life. I also concur with how the term sin is usually limited to literacy and not to real life events, unless maybe religious.
DeleteYour thoughts on sin really align with my beliefs. I think John Doe's portrayal of the sins really did it justice on how he viewed people committing these seven sins in life
Deleteprompt#2: I feel as if the film supported Dante's inferno very well, as they showed for each sin someone commits, there is a punishment. I also thought the ending was good, because they showed how Mills was also part of the punishment and becomes wrath. I also found it interesting how Mill's character was a contrast with Somerset's. While they were drinking at the bar, Somerset shows how he used to care, and now has given up trying to help the city. However, Mills still hasn't given up, and sought for change for the city. I also found it interesting how John Doe decided to play God and punished people on his own accord.
ReplyDeleteThe contrast between Mills and Somerset was definitely interesting, as we later see Somerset play the more benign role at the end. It really emphasizes the "wrath" that Mills is associated with.
DeleteI love this movie a lot and I love the way it ends because it clearly depicts the 7 sins and how it manipulates someone. The thing about these movies is that its kind of ironic that these murders become "duty" and the sin itself is just jealousy ( for Doe). It just doesn't make sense that this kind of killing would be even thought as reasonable and that the 7 sinners would ever "deserve" this death and torture. Basically, in this movie, sin is defeated by sin. Does using cruel sin to defeat these 7 sins really do anything, will it make the world a better or worse place? If Doe's doings were to be effective in any way, it would most likely only generate fear and make people try to hide their sins.
ReplyDeleteYour last sentence there is something I hadn't thought about at all. Very insightful! It also makes you wonder if you could really label John Doe as insane or if he is a completely logical person with very extreme ideals.
Delete(2) I'm personally a fan of crime/gory film and so I thought this movie was really interesting. I think Seven posed a lot of thought-provoking questions; at what point should the judging be the one judged, as John Doe was? I found Somerset's conversation with John Doe during the car ride to the last destination to the "stand-off" to be really cool as well, and having contrasting characters such as Somerset and Mills with their attention to detail and lack thereof really helped to elevate the thoughtful elements of the movie. I thought that Mills's repeated insistences of John Doe and of criminals/etc. in general being "crazies" and his continual writing them off as crazy people instead of focusing on mental issues or just trying to truly understand the reasoning behind their actions was something to consider as well. The detail of the film in foreshadowing were things that I didn't necessarily notice right away while watching, but learning about them definitely helped me better appreciate the design of specific scenes as well.
ReplyDeleteI thought the film as a whole was good as it contained a lot of suspense and a good plotline, albeit I think the ending was too twisted; hence, I didn’t stay to watch the entire movie. Knowing how the movie ended, I’m glad I was unable to wait to watch the entire movie to know it, and instead looked the entire plotline up because I think I would’ve been left more horrified by it than I already was in looking it up. As it was, while I knew that the story itself would probably not have the happiest ending considering the content of the film, I wasn’t expecting it to end as twisted as it did.
ReplyDelete2. Write your reactions to the film
ReplyDeleteThis movie was written very well, especially the ending. It presented a conflict of virtues, and brought to light a couple of major issues that plague our society today. One major one being apathy, and how we just grow numb to everything happening around us. While John Doe was obviously evil, and Mills good, it showed that anybody could turn bad from rage and if someone solely watched the last scene, they might not be able to tell who was the bad guy.
One of the characters that really made the movie good in my opinion was Somerset. He was presented as someone who could understand John Doe, but was morally neutral and would never do something that horrifying as murder 7 people. I was perplexed but understanding of his decision to stay on the force.
I enjoyed this movie significantly and would rewatch it again.
I agree that the script and plotline was written excellently, compelling its viewers throughout the film. I also agree that Somerset was a definite factor of what made the movie so great
DeleteYou raise a great point that someone wouldn't be able to tell who the bad guy is at the end of the movie. I think the way John Doe manipulates them right at the very end was a great way to finish the movie.
DeletePrompt #2: My Reaction
ReplyDeleteOverall the movie just felt really depressing, yet extremely suspenseful. It shows all the dark and despairing parts of human nature, snuffing out every hope that there is something to believe in and fight for in this hellish, crime riddled world. While I thought the gore and violence was extremely uncomfortable to sit through, at the same time I found that I just couldn't look away. It is was extremely intriguing to slowly and gradually unravel what kind of person John Doe is and how he manages to snag Somerset and Mills right into his trap. While it is very depressing, I find the dark and hopeless take on humanity really interesting, and in a way, refreshing. Some of the things that John Doe says to Mills and Somerset when they are in the car together really made me think about the darker parts of human nature, and how while the people he murdered may have been horrible people, murdering and torturing them so cruelly in the name of God is the most extreme conclusion he can come to in order to punish them. All in all, this movie spooked me quite a bit, but at the same time it is so good and really makes me think deeper about the problems in humanity.
I agree! The movie was really scary and bloody, but I really liked how it deeply discussed about the darker parts of humanity. The car scene actually felt like I was part of that conversation because it made me think again.
Delete2. I was surprised by the movie and how cleverly they thought of each murder. John Doe's murders and his method of killing his victims were very symbolic and well thought-out by him. It was interesting to see how each sinner died by a method that pertained well to their wrongdoings. For example, how the lazy man was strapped to the bed unable to move for a year, which symbolized his sin of sloth. Another sinner of gluttony was forced to overeat and was kicked in the stomach until he died. I also felt that the ending was very shocking, as the killer had thoroughly thought through that he would be the victim of the last sin, wrath, and Detective Mills would be the one to carry it out. However, I was ultimately glad that they decided not to show the head of Tracy Mills.
ReplyDeleteSeven was a very interesting movie in my eyes. With the suspenseful plotline, it kept us viewers holding onto our skills, wondering who will be the next victim of the serial killer John Doe. The portrayal of the movie very dark, shown by some symbolism, such as the pouring rain, black coats, and so on. I think the most surprising part of the whole film was when John Doe delivered Detective Mills' wife's head in box. I think it really summed up his insanity shown throughout the film. The severity of each crime and the way he couldn't get caught till the end shows the amount of though and patience he put into finishing his "mission." Overall, the shocking ending put the cherry on the top for a great movie about the seven sins.
ReplyDeleteI agree Arjun! The plot was very suspensful, and despite my previous belief that it was very predictable, the finale was a huge shock. I do wish that they movie went more in depth into the personal story of why John Doe was so insane.
DeleteI really enjoyed the movie and the way in which the directors were able to cleverly refresh the age old concept of sin for a modern day audience. The subtle foreshadowing using clever color symbolism as well as alluding to various other works ensured they were referenced by did not overly weight down the movie with somewhat older works. Moreover, I also enjoyed the way in which they created suspense by using creative lighting strategies. I genuinely think that I would love to watch the movie again this time whilst looking for these cleverly disguised aspects!
ReplyDeleteI agree! I think the movie was very well directed and engaged the people who were watching because of the suspense and plot. However, I don't think I would want to watch the movie again because it was pretty gruesome and it didn't have a happy ending.
Delete2.
ReplyDeleteI thought this movie was really interesting and well done because of the complexity of the plot along with the suspense that was built throughout the movie. The beginning credits scene reminded me of the intro for the TV show American Horror Story which is pretty creepy. The portrayal of all of the murder victims, I thought, were pretty extreme. But I think by making the appearance of the victims extreme and very gory highlights the severity and ugliness of the crime that was committed. As the movie goes on the suspense and story is done really well, but the ending seemed a little flat. I think if there was some more explanation as to why he really committed the crimes, it feels like something is missing at the end.
I definitely agree. I thought the movie was really interesting as well and I thought that the director was very successful in creating suspense for viewers. I really like what you said about making the appearances of victims seem 'extreme'. These scenes not only emphasize the severity of the crimes, but also serve as vehicles to continue the theme and overall storyline of the movie.
DeleteI agree that the overall story of the movie was well-planned and thought out, but the ending was flat. I felt that murdering Brad Pitt's wife (and thus child) did not connect with the rest of the plot where he murdered his other victims based on the Seven Deadly Sins. John Doe had said that the people he killed were not innocent, but Gwyneth Paltrow was innocent. In the last scene where she was seen alive in the bed, she was wearing white and red -- innocent bloodshed. If John Doe never killed innocent people, why did he kill her? It did not make much sense to me and the ending was a little dry in my opinion and just did not connect with everything else John Doe had done throughout the movie.
Delete3
ReplyDeleteUltimately, the definition of "sin" is up to the individual. Though the textbook definition of "sin" may be a violation of a divine law, this divine law is different for everyone. For those who are nonreligious, sin may represent wrongdoings such as lying, stealing, or cheating. In a religious perspective, sin may hold greater meaning because it may, for instance, lead you to Hell. Though I have been religious throughout my life, my definition of sin is not solely based on religion. Rather, I believe sin is just a wrongdoing, no matter how small. Sin is doing something that should not have been done, whether it's harming another individual or yourself.
Same girl! I agree that sin determined by the individual. Other people's definition of sin could be different from yours and mine, and it is not considerate to force the definition of sin upon others like what John Doe attempted.
DeleteI agree with your definition of sin. I feel like sin should not solely be based off of religion. Committing an act that harms others should be the basis for a sin.
DeleteI agree! I feel that in general not everyone believes in God. So the definition of sin is not the same for everyone, it is based off of that individual's morals.
Delete2.
ReplyDeleteThe film was very brilliant, because it was so suspenseful, mysterious, and gut-wrenching. Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman's acting was incredibly dramatic, and the plot was tight and close to perfect. The serial killer John Doe made the movie very entertaining, because he cleverly linked his murders to the Seven Deadly Sins.
I saw a lot of parallelism between this film and Batman. Both mysteries have an insane antagonist (John Doe and Joker) who are bent on turning good men into evil. Sadly, Brad Pitt caved in and took his revenge out, but Batman is always noble and unwilling to murder.
Overall, this mystery was very well thought out. The Hell references and "disgusting" scenes made it a very rated R film, but it encompassed the question whether humans are naturally evil or good.
I agree the dark themes of the movie was able to truly encompass human nature. There are two sides of the spectrum with John doe being the embodiment of evil and summerset being embodiment of good, But throughout the movie these lines get blurred. Although John Doe is murdering people he is murdering relatively bad people. and although Summerset is trying to help people there are evil things he has done in his past.
DeletePersonally, I found the film quite interesting but extremely disturbing. I can understand now why Mrs. Ene allowed others to leave the room given the gruesome and heinous murders such as the fat guy tied up and force fed to kill himself. The ending was a plot twist I had not expected. Initially, I believed that John Doe was going to take the two detectives to the previously murdered bodies, Anger and Envy, and kill them there. However, I did not realize that Anger was Mills and Envy was Doe. This shock made a film that I had previously thought predictable unpredictable. So, this movie became very interesting to watch.
ReplyDeleteI thought the ending was going to be different as well. I though the use of Anger and Envy was clever in the ending.
DeleteI agree that the film was disturbing, but I think the only way John Doe can let his murders leave a legacy in revealing the unpunished sins that exist in our society is to make his act as disturbing as possible. The fact that John Doe planned for Mills to kill himself shows the level of commitment Doe has towards his beliefs more than his own life.
Delete4. Hell and Sin. Is there a hierarchy of sin? What is the very worst sin an individual can commit?
ReplyDeleteI think that there is a hierarchy of sin.. To me, lying or not worshipping God should not be equal to taking somebody else's life. I think that is the worst sin, to kill and to torture, because by doing so, you take away somebody else's life, and in the process of doing so, your goal is to only cause pain and suffering.
I agree. I also think that Dante's order of sins is not entirely correct. In modern day, some sins such as incest would be lower in hell while things like betrayal or lying would be higher up
DeleteI think lying or not worshipping God shouldn't even be considered as sins. If one is lying with good intention, for example, it shouldn't be condemned. Not worshipping God does not harm those who do worship God; thus, I don't believe it is a sin.
Delete3.
ReplyDeleteSin has different meaning. If you look at sin from a religious point of view it is breaking the rules set in place by the bible and God. If you look at sin from a more casual point of view it becomes more personal. From a non religious context sin is when you break your own moral code you have set for yourself. This means no one can tell you you have sinned only you know. and in a similar way no one can forgive you for these sins, but yourself.
I agree with you Hayden. Sinfulness is much more broad and has a different definition for different people.
Delete4.
ReplyDeleteHell is a place where you go if you commit a sin. For me a comparable real life example would be prision.Sin would logically mean a crime. For both sin and crime you commit an act that is not acceptable to society. Also like crime, sin has different levels. With minor crimes, one receives a shorter sentence, similarly with minor sins there should be a more lenient punishment. Unlike in Inferno I don't believe that people should go to hell for not believing in God or believing in another religion. Instead people should only be punished for certain acts like stealing, cheating, or greedy. The very worst sin that a person can commit would be murder. Just like in society, when murder is committed usually the death penalty or life imprisonment is given.
I agree with you that murder is the worst sin. This is definitely not acceptable in society! I think in Inferno, there are many people who are in there who shouldn't, like people who are not baptised.
DeleteI really enjoyed the movie as it had a very developed plot filled with mystery and suspense. It was fascinating how planned-out the murders were by John Doe and how he had a reason behind each and every one of them. He brought a different perspective to the world, such as when he thought someone being innocent was a joke, because no one is truly innocent. What John Doe thought of as a sin was possibly different than what Brad Pitt had thought, so in his eyes, the victims were righteously murdered. I like that there was a reason behind everything that John Doe had done, and how we were able to watch the murders play out and see the reasoning behind everything he had done.
ReplyDeleteI agree that the movie had a well-developed plot. I thought the director did a nice job of dropping hints for viewers to understand what was going on, while not revealing too much. I also really liked seeing the reasoning behind every murder/action, because it put everything into perspective and allowed viewers to see the thinking process of multiple characters in the movie, which added to character development and growth.
DeletePrompt #2:
ReplyDeleteI think the movie was pretty intense and it makes me feel a bit scared due to war and violence. I felt like it was a haunted town, for there were victims in the movie that nearly gave me a heart attack. The beginning seems dark, and the ending is bright, and this makes me feel like the movie is going from good to evil. I was shock to see two victims in the film. The climax was interesting too, for the killer lied to David, and the black dude did not want him dead. I was interested in knowing what was really in the box.
Seven and Dante's Inferno both are very closely tied to sin. The large similarity I noticed between the two was the fact that there was a "contrapasso" for each sinner in both the film, and the poem. In the Inferno, people are punished both based on the level of their sin, and also in a manner which symbolic relative to the sin they committed. In Seven, each sinner was killed in a manner representative of their sin which they had committed, all were in horrible ways and they weren't organized in any particular level of punishments. I think that it is really interesting how similar Dante is to the serial killer in the fact that they get detached from the gruesomeness in their hells. The serial killer seems perfectly content with murdering people in a sadistic manner, and towards the end of Inferno, Dante begins to beat and step on some of the sinners.
ReplyDelete3. Being Catholic I am aware of the churchś definition of sin, the Ten Commandments, 7 deadly sins, mortal sins, and all that type of stuff. Only I do not entirely agree with it, which causes me trouble sometimes with fellow Catholics, but truthfully to me sin is hurting another person or yourself purposefully. It seems like religions try to make having fun seem like a sin, and put all these regulations on what determines you as a good person. This is not what Jesus was about though, he looked at peopleś hearts not just what acts they committed in their lives. Jesus forgave a murderer who was dying next to him at his own time of death. So why do we try to put all these definitions on sins? Why do some judge smoking, eating too much, sex or whatever, to me having a good heart is what matters. And to have a good heart you do your best to not hurt others, which is what sin is to me.
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DeleteI didn't even read your response before writing mine and I completely agree! My religion states some actions as sins, however, I do not agree with all of it. I think the way we are brought up really shapes the way we perceive things and how we tell what's right from wrong.
DeleteThe movie Seven parallels a lot about Dante's Inferno, especially the part about sin and the contrapasso for the sin. John Doe chose a specific punishment for each of the sinners he chose, which is similar to how Dante put the sinners in different parts of Hell and how they had to endure specific punishments for their crime. Both of them also use a lot of biblical allusions such as how Seven was based off of the seven deadly sins and how Dante's Inferno was based off of Hell and Christianity. Although the movie was pretty gruesome with the punishments, each punishment fit the crime. However, the movie also had other punishments to innocent people, such as Tracy, whose head was cut off, even though she didn't sin. This is different from Dante's Inferno, because Inferno felt that each person in his Hell deserved to be there for the crime that they committed.
ReplyDelete2. I enjoyed a lot of the movie's cinematography and the use of different colors and lighting to symbolize things. I think the crime scenes were gory enough visually and orally that it properly conveyed not only how horrific the crimes were, but also how terrible John Doe perceived the sins to be. The darkness of the movie in addition to the way it makes you question the morality of humans made it pleasing to watch.
ReplyDeleteI liked the characterization as well, the contrast between Somerset and Mills was very refreshing, although Mills' obstinance was frustrating at times. John Doe's calculated calmness was unsettling in the right way, and the way their differences were all made very apparent at the end of the movie was great to watch.
I agree! The use of different colors and lighting was a very subtle way of using our subconscious to hint at what was going to happen. I also like the character relationship between Somerset and Mills.
DeleteAlthough some parts of the movie disturbed me and I had to look away, I also thought that the movie was very good. The way the scenes were set up, the music, and the lighting made the movie so suspenseful. I liked how it questioned the morality of humans as well, by saying that the world is messed up because they are so accepting of all these sins.
DeleteI also liked the characters' personalities which added a refreshing side to such a dark movie.
2. After watching the movie I was shocked at how the conclusion of the movie ended up occurring. As a whole, I found the movie to be very interesting, keeping its audience entertained for its entirety. The different cinematic techniques that were used in the movie helped its cause adding more depth to the people watching. I was particularly fond by the methods the director used to portray the different types of sins and the gruesomeness of them. The ending of the movie was a sudden surprise and was a perfect portrayal of how overcoming ones urge for revenge can become a struggle,no matter the consequences that they know holds for them in partaking in revenge.
ReplyDeleteDuring the crime investigation, both Mills and Somerset go through reading many classic pieces of literature like Inferno and purgatory in order to learn more about John Doe's motives. John Doe is essentially Dante in this film. He obviously didn't come up with the seven deadly sins himself but John Doe essentially chooses himself who in the world are sinners and essentially makes a punishment that can almost be viewed as a contrapasso as the way each person was murdered reflects the sin that they commited.
ReplyDeleteAlthough my religion specifically lays out what is considered a sin and what is not, I still have my own interpretation of what the actual definition of a sin is. To me, a sin is something that a person is harmful to others, the environment, or just in general, but decides to do it anyways. This contradicts what my religion says, because there are some things that are classified as sins even though no one is necessarily harmed from it. For example, drinking is a sin. Now, in my opinion, drinking is not always harmful. Yes it is bad for your body and if used responsibly it could lead to harmful things, however, that is not always the case. People drink leisurely, and not everyone drinks with the intention of getting drunk per say. However, there are sins stated in my religion that I do agree with. An example is that stealing is a sin. Someone who steals is, in my opinion, harming another person by taking their things. The thief has bad intentions and therefore is a sinner.
ReplyDeleteI agree with your argument. I know that in many religions, some things that are basic in human and animal nature are considered sins.
Delete5.
ReplyDeleteI do not think there is a place for Hell. People commit crimes and sins, and require a punishment, but to sentence someone to eternal punishment after death is harsh. I think Karma exists, so if you do something wrong or bad, there is a punishment or some sort of similar action, but I think that people deserve forgiveness, knowing that they will not do it again and learn from their wrongdoing. Some people may believe in hell because they grew up with their parents believing in hell. Other people might not believe in hell because they do not believe in afterlife.
I think people like to believe such a place exists because they want justice taken against sinners who have wronged them. Because all humans are equal and no human has the exclusive right to punish, people vindictively hope the divine will judge and punish sinners accordingly by placing them in hell.
Delete3. Define sin. What does it mean?
ReplyDeleteI believe that a sin is an action that is morally wrong or harmful towards ourselves or others. (Gluttony hurts yourself, Sloth hurts yourself, Pride hurts yourself, Wrath hurts others, Greed hurts others,etc) Referring specifically to the 7 Deadly Sins, I believe that a sin is something that is seemingly uncontrollable yet is just a issue or wrongdoing that we choose to ignore during our lifetime. John Doe, in the film, Seven, makes a comment about how the world is so messed up that people see the victims of his murders as "innocent." He explains how these sins are ignored because so many people sin that it is regarded as "normal" in society. Even if a sin is tolerated or accepted in society, that does not lessen its severity. It is harmful nonetheless.
Yea, I agree on your definition of sin as a wrongdoing that is preventable but is just tolerated. I also agree with your point that in the film the seven deadly sins have become mundane.
Delete2. The film was good in that it related the ideas of medieval texts like Dante's Purgatory and the Canterbury texts into a modern setting in New York City. The seven sins pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth aren't acts our judicial system can punish, but through the murderer's killings the audience can realize seemingly innocent people can be sinners. For instance, the attorney was killed for being a greedy lawyer who desire for money caused him to defend criminals. There is no way he will go to jail for doing his job, but defending the sinful criminals is being a sinner. I also thought John Doe was very clever in letting himself be killed by Mills as the last sinner, representing wrath.
ReplyDeleteIn a general sense, I think sin is an act of transgression against your own morals. If you believe in God then your morals would line up with his and then it would be an act of transgression against God. But if you don't believe in God, then you would be going against the morals that you have set for yourself.
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with this. A sin does not have to be strictly defined for all, it varies from person to person and it depends on your own morals. Like you said if you go against your morals then you are sinning to yourself. Regardless what you believe the consequences may be you simply know you have done wrong and to feel wrong about it
Delete2. I'm not particularly a fan of gory movies, however, Seven had just the right amount of thrill and complexity to keep me interested. The plot is unique and I felt it connected nicely with the themes in Dante's Inferno. For instance, John Doe's victims are killed in a sort-of "parody" of the individual's sin is an example of contrapasso. I felt David Fincher did a fantastic job employing cinematic techniques such as playing with camera angles, incorporating music, and lighting to keep the scenes suspenseful and me at the edge of my seat. The cast is great as well, Kevin Spacey was really great portraying a psychopathic serial killer. I had a feeling the wife would make Doe's list of victims, especially when she expressed her concerns of living in a crime-ridden city to Detective Somerset (Morgan Freeman). To me, it was a death flag.
ReplyDelete2. I found the movie to be both thought-provoking and exciting because not only does it paint complex ideas such as justice and retribution in a way that lends itself to introspection, but the symbolism created through various cinematographic techniques helped highlight the characters and the ideals they represent. While Doe's means to the end can never be justified, his intent should be a source of reflection. It exposes the flaws in our justice system as well as tendencies to dismiss those with extremist ideas as "insane."
ReplyDeleteI also agree that the movie made me think differently on whether extremist ideas should be dismissed, and it also made me reflect on what power an individual had in condemning sin.
Delete#4
ReplyDeleteIn my opinion, there isn't a hierarchy of sin because sin is interpreted differently from culture to culture. We can't really have a consistent hierarchy because each person may rank sins differently according to their beliefs. Additionally, I think that thinking about sin as a hierarchy is counterintuitive because it makes it acceptable (or not as bad) to commit certain sins. Rather, sin should be thought of as a general category with anything lying inside as unacceptable.
I find your argument about the counterintuitive nature of a hierarchy sin very convincing. By ranking sins, in effect we are saying that one is more permissible than another which completely contradicts the idea the sin should not be committed at all.
DeleteI find your argument about the counterintuitive nature of a hierarchy sin very convincing. By ranking sins, in effect we are saying that one is more permissible than another which completely contradicts the idea the sin should not be committed at all.
DeleteAlthough I see your point of view, I actually do believe there is an inherent hierarchy of sin. For example, I'm pretty sure it's universally accepted that murder is a worse sin than stealing a 5 cent candy bar.
Delete3) I believe sin is acting in a way that harms others. For example, murder and betrayal are sins because there exists a victim. However, I don't believe pride and envy are sins because no one is harmed. Although these traits negatively impact the way we view the person, these traits themselves don't harm another person if no action is taken. However, if a person murders someone out of envy like John Doe in "Seven", then it becomes a sin.
ReplyDeleteI really liked Seven because of its parallels with Dante's Inferno. I remember watching an episode of Criminal Minds (or CSI; I don't remember which one) where the serial killer had been killing his victims based off the 7 Deadly Sins. I remember enjoying that episode so it comes without a doubt that I would enjoy Seven as well. I like how the ending wasn't predictable (although I do admit that it was kind of obvious the box would contain Mills' wife's head) and how suspenseful the whole movie was. The lighting and soundtrack also intensified the thrill of the movie. All the actors were very good; their feelings looked genuine. I also liked how, despite the fact that the movie was created over 20 years ago, it seems like it could happen today.
ReplyDelete#3
ReplyDeleteTo me, sin is any action or thought that breaks moral standards. However, the definition of sin is highly dependent on the individual person, as everyone's perspective is different. A particular person's definition of sin is highly dependent on their beliefs and religion. Sin is a very general term, encompassing all wrongdoings or immoral actions (small or big).
Hell does not exist. Logically, it does not make sense to argue hell is real with absolutely no evidence. Although you can say there´s little evidence saying its not real, the person arguing that something is real should always be the one with evidence. It´s like saying there are aliens hovering outside the atmosphere of these planet. Well sure, you can´t prove it wrong yourself, but it´s such a farfetched concept it´s unbelievable. Religion and Hell are basically the same thing, except because it teaches people to have good morals, oh now it´s legit. I call BS. You can´t just tell people lies because it helps you out in the end.
ReplyDeleteI personally really liked the movie. It presented a very interesting connection between a modern murder mystery to a very famous and old text. While it was a bit gory, it further added to the legitimacy of the plot. I also like how the director played with camera angles, lighting, and wardrobe colors as a foreshadowing technique. Because Gwyneth Paltrow was wearing red, the audience could assume that she was going to die. Also, the way that the lighting changes during the crime scene adds to the suspense of the movie. I also liked how at the end, Kevin Spacey's character explained why he chose each specific victim, which kind of tied up some loose ends should the viewer have any confusions.
ReplyDeleteI personally really like this film now. The film had many bloody scenes, but it really made me think about the idea of sin. For example, I came up with questions like “What is sin even?” and “Who are we to judge other sinners?” The scene where Morgan Freeman talks to Kevin Spacey at the end of the movie was really eye opening as well. I liked how the film talks about such hard idea: we have no right to judge others, but what are we going to do with all the crimes happening? Overall, I liked that the movie made me think deeply.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I do not like movies that are violent and show very vivid and bloody images, I really enjoyed this movie. It was the perfect combination of mystery, drama, and plot-twist to keep you on the edge of your seat wanting to continue the movie. However, I did not like the end of the movie. I thought it was slightly anticlimactic and predictable. As soon as he said that only Morgan Freemen and Brad Pitt should go with him I knew either both were going to be the last two sinners or it would be him and Brad's wife. After you revealed the color contrast and foreshadowing I realized how intricate the movie is and well-planned out which is quite amazing. Overall, I really enjoyed the movie and am glad that I had the opportunity to watch it.
ReplyDeleteI really liked the film. Although it was quite bloody, it didn't completely rely on violence and gore to disturb the audience. Being familiar with Dante's Inferno, and the 7 Deadly Sins, I knew what kind of sins John Doe was targeting, yet the way and timing the killer set up his killings still managed to shock me each time. On a separate note, I found the ending to be a little disappointing; the last few lines/scenes with Morgan Freeman seem a little out of place.
ReplyDeleteThe film really broke my heart; although the violent actions and scenes committed were gruesome and inhumane, what really got to me the most was the fact that their marriage of two, and now future family of three with an incoming child was destroyed. That literally broke my heart and brought me to tears as they were looking towards a future of affectionately loving one another and sharing life as well as having a pure, beloved child within their family. Their future held successful, lovely moments full of laughter, smiles, love, affection, attention, special moments shared, and just life. This is what people interacting and sharing life together are all about and especially if it's family. Life is meant to be shared with people who genuinely love you and people you love from deep inside your heart (Im hecka reeeaaaaallllllyyyy cheesy)
ReplyDeleteHehehehe :3 <3
ReplyDeleteItalian Potata
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